Brad Treliving needs to go

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GKDarts

There are a whole lot of people that could foresee an asset's value eroding while the retention risk was going up at the same time. Good gm's don't get there.

Well that is pretty obvious. The harder part is that the Flames had every piece locked in to go on a run. Do you think a GM was going to trade their top player to avoid them walking? Yeah, sure they could have offered Gaudreau a 8x10 contract last offseason but he was coming off two pretty subpar years.

[OldDutch]

The buck stops with BT but he doesn’t have final say. Its a tough spot if (and its an if) ownership is involved. If they are, and said do whatever it takes, against BT advice then its an awful spot to be in.

So its hard to lay blame, assuming anyone else would have been able to do things differently. With an owner(s) and very successful and sting willed ones at that, your not able to operate.

As difficult as it is, because as humans we want a person to blame, I think this is an organization breakdown at some level. At least until facts ever come out, and I bet when they do it will be blunders all round. JG misleading Flames, BT not setting a deadline, ownership meddling, etc.

A good org steps back and learns lessons, but after how Iginla was handled (allowing him to jerk them 11th hour too) I doubt they do anything different.

[Calgary4LIfe]

It is difficult to lay blame, but I hope that Calgary has learned a lesson here, and adopts a rule:


No core high value players will enter a season heading into UFA status. They either get extended the season before, or they get traded. No exceptions.


That's what should have happened with Gaudreau to begin with. There was some angst about that last season, and it happened.


I am sure that it won't happen with Tkachuk. That's too soon. However, I do hope that this is something that the Flames implement as an organizational philosophy. Calgary simply can't afford to allow high-priced assets to walk out the front door when they aren't a destination that can attract high-priced assets in return.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't see where the Flames are so much more than anyone else. Regarding Gaudreau, they had to go first, so blind, but they offered $10.5M and NJ allegedly offered $10.2M. CBJ apparently had Gaudreau come to them, so they were in a pretty enviable situation, which explain their lower offer. One would have to assume that if they were pursuing Gaudreau, and had to negotiate, they likely end up higher than that.

Looking at another example yesterday, CBJ allegedly offered Zadorov $4M and the Flames offered $3.75M.

Seems like they are all in the same ballpark to me.

He was UFA, anyone could have gone after him so I don't about CBJ having the bargaining strength. We don't know everything but sure sounds like CBJ had higher AAV than the NJD offer.

Guess I'm left wondering how high Flames would have gone.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

He was UFA, anyone could have gone after him so I don't about CBJ having the bargaining strength. We don't know everything but sure sounds like CBJ had higher AAV than the NJD offer.

Guess I'm left wondering how high Flames would have gone.

Our offer is reported to be 10.5M x 8. which is obviously the upper limit of what JG is worth. Not to take BT off the hook, he obviously has a part to play in this, but what more could he have offered?

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

It is difficult to lay blame, but I hope that Calgary has learned a lesson here, and adopts a rule:


No core high value players will enter a season heading into UFA status. They either get extended the season before, or they get traded. No exceptions.


That's what should have happened with Gaudreau to begin with. There was some angst about that last season, and it happened.


I am sure that it won't happen with Tkachuk. That's too soon. However, I do hope that this is something that the Flames implement as an organizational philosophy. Calgary simply can't afford to allow high-priced assets to walk out the front door when they aren't a destination that can attract high-priced assets in return.

So you would be ok with them trading their superstar player away which jeopardizes their chances on even qualifying for or having success in the playoffs. You would sacrifice the battle of Alberta for asset management

[dino7c]

People trade firsts and prospects for expiring UFAs every single season

I'm not sure "no pending UFAs" is realistic

Gaudreau was basically a free rental at that point...I really don't know what you could have got for him a year ago, more than nothing but I don't think a big haul.

Tkachuk is different with his age and skillset, Gaudreau isn't exactly a proven winner...no top end team seemed to think he was worth clearing 10M for. Even middling teams

[tony-soprano]

If chucky wants out..I trust Tre to make this deal. He tends to win trades and lose free agency.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by tony-soprano

If chucky wants out..I trust Tre to make this deal. He tends to win trades and lose free agency.

Sens seem like the place you could absolutely fleece

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

It is difficult to lay blame, but I hope that Calgary has learned a lesson here, and adopts a rule:


No core high value players will enter a season heading into UFA status. They either get extended the season before, or they get traded. No exceptions.


That's what should have happened with Gaudreau to begin with. There was some angst about that last season, and it happened.


I am sure that it won't happen with Tkachuk. That's too soon. However, I do hope that this is something that the Flames implement as an organizational philosophy. Calgary simply can't afford to allow high-priced assets to walk out the front door when they aren't a destination that can attract high-priced assets in return.

Creating an earlier deadline basically just moves up their UFA date. Players that want out will say OK, trade me, I’ll be a rental until UFA. Teams will say “Hey I see you have a guy a year away. Here’s a stink bid”

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Sens seem like the place you could absolutely fleece

They are due for a bad trade, they have won every single trade this off-season by a country mile.

[Goriders]

It’ll be interesting to see how Tkachuk does this year minus Johnny.

I’m not as sold on Tkachuk as I was on Johnny. He can have games were he’s awesome. But then he literally dissappears for a while.

I think Gaudreau was much more consistent

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Our offer is reported to be 10.5M x 8. which is obviously the upper limit of what JG is worth. Not to take BT off the hook, he obviously has a part to play in this, but what more could he have offered?

Well that's kind of my point. I'm not sure he had a stopping point, it was sign Gaudreau or bust. I actually think he went through the upper limit of what he is worth.

[Joborule]

Tkachuk being the main guy now, with no long term security in place, as well as uncertainy he can match, or surpass last season's production without a strong playmaker around, puts me firmly in the rebuild position for this franchise.

I feel that to make work out of what's currently in place, and what's available in the market, isn't going to be enough for Flames to be legit contenders within the current window.

And if Flames do go down the rebuild route, Treliving should not be the one to run it. He has his opportunity. Time for someone new to take control.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Goriders

It’ll be interesting to see how Tkachuk does this year minus Johnny.

I’m not as sold on Tkachuk as I was on Johnny. He can have games were he’s awesome. But then he literally dissappears for a while.

I think Gaudreau was much more consistent

Ya, I was much more confident giving a big contract to Gaudreau even despite the age difference. I think Tkachuk is a good player, but he's a secondary player on a good team. If he signs long term, I hope they aren't expecting to consistently put up numbers like last year.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Goriders

It’ll be interesting to see how Tkachuk does this year minus Johnny.

I’m not as sold on Tkachuk as I was on Johnny. He can have games were he’s awesome. But then he literally dissappears for a while.

I think Gaudreau was much more consistent

Well I think we'll see this coming season will tell which stick really stirred the drinks.

[MrMike]

So what number would people here be okay with for a Tkachuk 8 year contract?
9, 9.5, 10, 10.5?

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by MrMike

So what number would people here be okay with for a Tkachuk 8 year contract?
9, 9.5, 10, 10.5?

None of those numbers. I would be ok with the same deal Landeskog signed. Somewhere in the $7m-$8m range. I realize that his QO is $9m, but he isn’t worth that.

[Gaskal]

Not signing the LandPhil is a fireable worthy offense.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MrMike

So what number would people here be okay with for a Tkachuk 8 year contract?
9, 9.5, 10, 10.5?

no, no, no, and eff no