Barn Burner: The Boys are Back!! (Boomer, Pinder & Warrener)

[GioforPM]

Bertuzzi was indeed out and that was a blow. It was aking to a season ending injury. But they still had Naslund and Morrison on the top line and Naslund was at his peak, over PPG and one season removed from 104. Plus Sedins, and Linden.

Calgary was missing a few guys too - Reinprecht, McCammond. Beside the point but they lost Lydman and Gautheir after game 6.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

And the specific example you cited wasn’t a player about whose development there was generally accepted concern at the time

It was clearly a concern to two veteran players!

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think both things can be true.

Hartley defined a role and got production out of Bennett but he also was poor at developing his game as Stajan said by not sitting him and by ruining him by playing mental games with him amd being a complete DB.

I believe he touched on it as well when he said lots of players have great shots and speed etc but it's the mental part and IQ that separates a lot of guys.

As we saw with Darryl last season the mental part of the game is huge as well. You can't be a DB with people and get away with it.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Yeah, it could easily be that Bennett scored some goals as a hot rookie but was also weathered down and ruined a bit as the year went on by Hartley, which then bled into a lack of confidence going forward under other coaches.

To me Bingo's story from his source is easily believable.

I dunno. I want to believe Bingo too but don’t recall this weathered down 18 year old being a thing. And projecting it as ruining his confidence under other coaches? That’s some kind of projection

Either it’s a lot of imagination at work, or you’re right. Bob ruined him

Somebody told me Bob left sticky notes for Gulutzan as well which ended up sabotaging ol’ Gul and seeing him lose the room too. Stick toss? That was Bob’s idea.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Not sure why we need to point out the “nature of pro sports” when the example is clearly unique.

Unique? The Flames just fired a guy with two more years on his contract because half of the guys in the room hated him.

In an NHL where Mike Babcock just found work again, Hartley’s behaviour is hardly unique.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I dunno. I want to believe Bingo too but don’t recall this weathered down 18 year old being a thing. And projecting it as ruining his confidence under other coaches? That’s some kind of projection

Either it’s a lot of imagination at work, or you’re right. Bob ruined him

Somebody told me Bob left sticky notes for Gulutzan as well which ended up sabotaging ol’ Gul and seeing him lose the room too. Stick toss? That was Bob’s idea.

Right but I've said at least twice that I'm not absolving coaches that came after Hartley nor Bennett himself.

It was just a tidbit passed on to me that two veteran players thought Hartley was ruining young players and specifically Bennett.

The rest you've added and tried to defend.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Right but I've said at least twice that I'm not absolving coaches that came after Hartley nor Bennett himself.

It was just a tidbit passed on to me that two veteran players thought Hartley was ruining young players and specifically Bennett.

The rest you've added and tried to defend.

I do find the Bennett specific weird

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I do find the Bennett specific weird

Yeah you clearly do.

But mostly because you've made too much of the original comments.

But yeah Bennett was mentioned specifically as the concern from the two players.

[Strange Brew]

How does Bennett scoring 18 goals lead anybody to doubt the veracity of a story where two respected players went to Treliving with concerns of how Hartley handled young players (with Bennett being the youngest player in the team)?

We have ample evidence that Hartley was despised by many players and we also have evidence that he could extract results over bursts of time. Good for Bennett for still getting some production while he was being treated like that.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

How does Bennett scoring 18 goals lead anybody to doubt the veracity of a story where two respected players went to Treliving with concerns of how Hartley handled young players (with Bennett being the youngest player in the team)?

We have ample evidence that Hartley was despised by many players and we also have evidence that he could extract results over bursts of time. Good for Bennett for still getting some production while he was being treated like that.

Lol. I don’t buy it. A wee bit of hearsay clearly goes a long way here though

I’ll buy the fact that he treated a chunk of the team well and a chunk poorly. As mentioned, other coaches do that. Babcock and Darryl for sure

I’d rather throw him under the bus for having Kipper holding a clipboard tracking faceoffs when the backup played

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

How does Bennett scoring 18 goals lead anybody to doubt the veracity of a story where two respected players went to Treliving with concerns of how Hartley handled young players (with Bennett being the youngest player in the team)?

We have ample evidence that Hartley was despised by many players and we also have evidence that he could extract results over bursts of time. Good for Bennett for still getting some production while he was being treated like that.

Exactly.

Anyone can doubt the story, don't get me wrong, but Bennett having only one season under Hartley and producing reasonably well doesn't refute anything.

[Vedder]

There’s no controversy here. Hartley was a notorious prick trodding out a system that was doomed to fail. He rode one year of percentages to an unrighteous Jack Adams, and was utter crap the rest of the time. He only got hired because his equally unqualified friend stumbled into a GM job he didn’t deserve. The rest of the NHL wouldn’t touch him.

All of the stories about him speak to playing weird mind games, giving feedback to players through other players while telling them something different to their face, sowing distrust, etc.

No doubt he was probably the worst guy to have in charge during our last core’s key development years.

Also recall he elevated Joe Colborne at the expense of Mikael Backlund. He truly had no clue.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Lol. I don’t buy it. A wee bit of hearsay clearly goes a long way here though

I’ll buy the fact that he treated a chunk of the team well and a chunk poorly. As mentioned, other coaches do that. Babcock and Darryl for sure

I’d rather throw him under the bus for having Kipper holding a clipboard tracking faceoffs when the backup played

Was Hartley a goaltender in a previous life?

It would explain the passion from your stand point.

[bdubbs]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Lol. I don’t buy it. A wee bit of hearsay clearly goes a long way here though

I’ll buy the fact that he treated a chunk of the team well and a chunk poorly. As mentioned, other coaches do that. Babcock and Darryl for sure

I’d rather throw him under the bus for having Kipper holding a clipboard tracking faceoffs when the backup played

whyareyouthewaythatyouare.gif

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Was Hartley a goaltender in a previous life?

It would explain the passion from your stand point.

Quite dispassionate, to be honest

Curious about people who firmly believe things that don’t make sense to me

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Vedder

There’s no controversy here. Hartley was a notorious prick trodding out a system that was doomed to fail. He rode one year of percentages to an unrighteous Jack Adams, and was utter crap the rest of the time. He only got hired because his equally unqualified friend stumbled into a GM job he didn’t deserve. The rest of the NHL wouldn’t touch him.

All of the stories about him speak to playing weird mind games, giving feedback to players through other players while telling them something different to their face, sowing distrust, etc.

No doubt he was probably the worst guy to have in charge during our last core’s key development years.

Also recall he elevated Joe Colborne at the expense of Mikael Backlund. He truly had no clue.

100%. Hartley's style and system were both unsustainable.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Lol. I don’t buy it. A wee bit of hearsay clearly goes a long way here though

I’ll buy the fact that he treated a chunk of the team well and a chunk poorly. As mentioned, other coaches do that. Babcock and Darryl for sure

I’d rather throw him under the bus for having Kipper holding a clipboard tracking faceoffs when the backup played

Go back a week or two and listen to Rhett talking about Hartley in regards to Kipper. It’s not about “tracking faceoffs”.

Hartley was a trash hire.

[curves2000]

A lot of these things are symptoms of a dysfunctional organization starting with the top in either ownership and upper business management.

All this organization talks about is the culture, all the stones are being turned over to find the (insert name of POHO, GM, Coach) who will get us to the promise land.

There is nothing wrong with coaches who are tough or who don't coddle players, playing whatever system some like and don't like.

This organization has a habit of hiring people who's good qualities are outweighed in a significant way by their really really bad qualities. It's almost like we don't have balance, nobody in serious positions of power within CSEC can't say knock this garbage off!

Can you imagine this level of dysfunction in the owners corporate world of their businesses? Ya, we hired a top tier CEO/ CFO who's got a ton of experience, is a hard nosed businessman and will turn this company around. After a few disaster years financially, it's come out that he's such a ruthless a**hole with his mind games, that his top VP's and their top associates tuned him out, went to other companies and the financial performance suffered. The stock collapsed, difficulty attracting talent and other troubles arose during this time.

Mayhem!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Unique? The Flames just fired a guy with two more years on his contract because half of the guys in the room hated him.

In an NHL where Mike Babcock just found work again, Hartley’s behaviour is hardly unique.

Three examples over ten years it the nature of NHL coaches, does it?

Weird that Hartley is the only one of the three that hasn’t been re-hired. Guess it makes him… unique.

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Quite dispassionate, to be honest

Curious about people who firmly believe things that don’t make sense to me

That’s what happens when people have more information than you and use it to form their belief. Shouldn’t be shocking.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Three examples over ten years it the nature of NHL coaches, does it?

Weird that Hartley is the only one of the three that hasn’t been re-hired. Guess it makes him… unique.



That’s what happens when people have more information than you and use it to form their belief. Shouldn’t be shocking.

Cute but no. Not shocked, just disappointed.
I don’t place a lot of stock in inconsistent and illogical information