Fire Gulutzan/Give him Coach of the year All Purpose Thread

[Timbo]

Originally Posted by Drapes

Oh and in Dallas as head coach in 2011-12 his pp was dead last at 13.5%

We're doomed

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Timbo

We're doomed

Yeah I didn't know any of this. Wow.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Games 13 - 16: 47.97 (#5LAK, #10ANA, #18DAL, #1NYR - AVG#9)
Competition improved yet again, and yet despite going 0-4-0 the Flames started to play better overall than the previous two segments during the third segment. Given the quality of competition, I think an argument could be made that the Flames played better than they did in segment one, as well. 0-4-0 is never acceptable, but these are some opponents that with the exception of Dallas (**** you Alex Chiasson for that stupid penalty!) that are a poor guage for the coach to be evaluated on.

While I appreciate your effort to quantify an argument in defence of Gulutzan, the fact still remains that you expended a lot of time, energy and words to effectively argue the Flames are "visually better".

Out of curiousity, where did you get the numbers to put this together from?

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

OK sure.
But those viewpoints can be challenged.
Moreover, a possible solution is indeed to stay the course.
As has been pointed out
- Teams in this type of state very rarely make positive trades or decisions
- Organizations that constantly flip coaches and management or often the same organizations that are perpetual losers

So doing nothing, is a valid option at this point.

I would of rather done nothing and kept Hartley a Jack Adams Stanley cup winning coach.
GG is not the guy you sit on he hasn't proven he knows anything about coaching at this point.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Drapes

When GG coached the Nucks pp in 2013/14 they finished 28th That's terrible when you consider he had the Sedins. He was criticized for never changing the system the entire year. He was stripped of pp coaching duties the following season.

Originally Posted by Drapes

Oh and in Dallas as head coach in 2011-12 his pp was dead last at 13.5%

You're ####ing kidding me, right?

[Timbo]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

You're ####ing kidding me, right?

If this in fact is true and you add to this Dave Cameron's PP failures it would seem that Trelivings "process" is possibly fundamentally flawed.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by chedder

This begs the question though. Did the core disappear because of GG or in spite of him? I don't profess to know the system but, to me, it looks like a slow boring style of hockey that oppositing teams just devour. We can't get out of our own end and certainly can't get into the offensive zone with any certainty. Guys standing at the blue line seemingly not knowing what to do.

When I followed the team through California last weekend, I sat in our attacking end zone all three times. It was quite illuminating. What I saw in all games was as follows:

-Get wide at all costs. Every pass, while north-south, was also pushing to the boards. Defencemen skated to the boards, and so did the wingers. This created gaps up the middle. Big gaps. Ones the Kings especially drove oil tanker ships through.

- The centre was pretty much non-existent at this point of the breakout. One could criticize Monahan's play, but the system didn't really seem to care that we even have a centre.

- Left wing leads the rush, if possible. Coupled with the point above, this basically eliminated everything that makes Gaudreau work. He was asked to gain the line against multiple huge King and Duck opponents every time out and was frequently left without options.

- If we can't get even that far: long diagonal pass from LW to RW. Trivially easy to anticipate and pick-off. Then exploit the noted holes created by pushing everyone to the wall.

End result: If we fail to gain the zone, there are too many gaps for the opposition to exploit and turn into high percentage chances. Even if we managed to gain the zone, we pushed ourselves to the outside with little hope of getting the puck into the home plate area. Nothing to do but take the easy corsi event and try to get back on D.

Offensively, I think we're failing because of Gulutzan. The Gaudreau-Monahan-Hudler line worked because they could free wheel. Gulutzan's system stifles the creativity of Gaudreau, doesn't seem to care much about Monahan, and Treliving failed to find a RW that could work with them.

Defensively, I think it is a mixed bag. The coach's pairings have frequently been stupid. And while Engelland certainly deserves praise for his play thus far, the fact remains that when we see this guy in the top four or on the PK, the other defenceman has to compensate for him. Gio, for example, is going to look worse because he's trying to do his job and about 1/4th of his partner's.

[Rejean31]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

OK sure.
But those viewpoints can be challenged.
Moreover, a possible solution is indeed to stay the course.
As has been pointed out
- Teams in this type of state very rarely make positive trades or decisions
- Organizations that constantly flip coaches and management or often the same organizations that are perpetual losers

So doing nothing, is a valid option at this point.

If Flames management thought this way back in 2002/03 the would have never gotten rid of Greg Gilbert which then yielded them Darryl Sutter who got the team into the playoffs in his first full season as coach.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Again do you not acknowledge that you are looking for anything that supports an opinion you've now formed? Feels like full on confirmation bias.

You've been quick to point out the confirmation bias in others, searching for data to support that Gulutzan was a poor choice. Could you point me in the direction of data that may suggest he was a good choice? I'm being serious. I'm looking for a sliver of hope somewhere, anywhere. You seem to be holding hope that Gulutzan can still turn this around, and I'm wondering what's driving that belief.

I've been hanging onto that Haynes article for weeks now that said it can take up to 16 or 18 games before a team clicks under a new head coach. I have a hard time believing that things will just click in the next week. I don't think his article accounted for a team that by the 16 game mark of the season... had the worst PP, worst PK, worst GA, worst record, and worst goaltender sv% in the league.

[JiriHrdina]

I've not said he's a good coach. I don't know if he is or not. I'm questioning the want to make a quick or rash decision and what I see as not enough blame going to the players
But I've not stated anywhere that he's a good or bad coach

[Rejean31]

And how does Jordan Sigalet still have a job? How many goaltenders has this guy coached? Now, how many are still playing in the NHL? Whatever this guy is teaching is toxic to goalies. He is effectively coaching them right out of the NHL.

[btimbit]

I don't really want the team to do anything right away either. Knee jerk reactions in the middle of a slump rarely work out.

But if the team isn't at least playing .500 hockey by the new year, there's no way you keep the coaching staff. We finally have good goalies, but they're both on one year contracts and they're being wasted by brutal systems that leave massive holes for breakouts. I'm afraid fans, and more importantly management, are going to point fingers at Elliott as the problem.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

And how does Jordan Sigalet still have a job? How many goaltenders has this guy coached? Now, how many are still playing in the NHL? Whatever this guy is teaching is toxic to goalies. He is effectively coaching them right out of the NHL.

This is oilers logic. If every goalie that comes in sucks, it's likely the awful defense in front of him. It ain't the goalie coach

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Timbo

If this in fact is true and you add to this Dave Cameron's PP failures it would seem that Trelivings "process" is possibly fundamentally flawed.

Two wrongs make a right?

[GaiJin]

Has anyone deciphered what exactly is Gulutszan's system or process yet? It just looks so random out there right now, either players are doing what he says and he's all over the place, or the players don't know what he wants them to do.
In last nights game, the flames didn't break in on set plays, they broke in on sloppy ranger clearing when they did get in the zone.

[Tailgator]

Originally Posted by GaiJin

Has anyone deciphered what exactly is Gulutszan's system or process yet? It just looks so random out there right now, either players are doing what he says and he's all over the place, or the players don't know what he wants them to do.
In last nights game, the flames didn't break in on set plays, they broke in on sloppy ranger clearing when they did get in the zone.

Is a clusterf*** a system?

[flames_fan13]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I would of rather done nothing and kept Hartley a Jack Adams Stanley cup winning coach.
GG is not the guy you sit on he hasn't proven he knows anything about coaching at this point.

Just because Gulutzan hasn't worked out does not mean we should have kept Hartley. For all the flack Gulutzan gets he's got the exact same record that Hartley had last season after 16 games. We are 5-10-1 with Gulutzan and were 5-10-1 (Last year stats) Last year's excuse was blamed on goaltending but this season the top line hasn't done anything to show that they are elite level players. Whether Gulutzan is the right coach has yet to be seen. Any coach would have trouble when the players are making the mistakes they are making and getting limited high level of play from their top line consistently.

[thymebalm]

It's a results based league. And the results are in.

Gulutzan / Cameron are failing the fan base at every turn.

They've taken the best roster the Flames have put together in 5 seasons, and providing the worst results in franchise history.

The bleeding needs to stop. The Flames aren't rounding some imaginary bend towards great hockey. They suck. It sucks that they suck. They are dead last in goal differential, which by my watch is the easiest way to determine playoff teams from non-playoff teams.

At the beginning of the season I thought that Treliving had done everything he could, and that the only question mark I had coming into the year was coaching.

At this point my question has been answered. The Flames didn't get the right guy for the job.

I'm not surprised. I feel like Treliving ran out of options. He didn't hire the coach until basically the day before development camp. He needed someone out there and his hand was forced.

This team, this town, they deserve better. I understand that Hartley had his flaws and some veterans on the team were critical of his management of Sam Bennett... but look now and tell me that the new coach is doing anything better.

Goaltending was the biggest problem last season. That's what should have been corrected. We should have seen what Hartley could do with two upgrades in net before we tossed everything out and started a new system from scratch with a coach who's had zero success stories.

[GaiJin]

Originally Posted by flames_fan13

Just because Gulutzan hasn't worked out does not mean we should have kept Hartley. For all the flack Gulutzan gets he's got the exact same record that Hartley had last season after 16 games. We are 5-10-1 with Gulutzan and were 5-10-1 (Last year stats) Last year's excuse was blamed on goaltending but this season the top line hasn't done anything to show that they are elite level players. Whether Gulutzan is the right coach has yet to be seen. Any coach would have trouble when the players are making the mistakes they are making and getting limited high level of play from their top line consistently.

Brodie was down for the first 6 weeks last year, Bouma and Ferland were down early on as well. I think this year we started healthier.

[Kjesse]

Most of the media and some posters are defending Gulutzan. He deserves a fair shake but the writing is on the wall already.

The two games I've been to, watching him on the bench, I got a sense of someone who doesn't belong there. He lacks presence. On TV its the same thing, he doesn't exude a sense of leadership. He spends a lot of time looking down. He never looks "tough". He often looks defeated. If your general on the field appears like a wimp, that translates to the troops. Gulutzan talks about the players being afraid, its actually him.

He's been handed a roster far better than its record suggests. The only thing I'd point in his favour is the Flames have had a tough schedule.

I far preferred Hartley. In a contest of passion Gulutzan doesn't even register.