Did Kris Russell overplay his hand in free agency?

[442scotty]

Snooze you lose for Russell... Had a chance to sign last year...

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by bettman

I have heard Flames are concerned Wideman's skating has deteriorated so much its a problem. If they can clear a couple of million don't be surprised Russel signs for 1 year 2.75m. A guess but its out there

He does look very slow. I don't see how he can defend any more. Honestly he's going to be a liability and I hope they fix it before he costs us anything.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

And they were rookies that earned their spots. I'm not saying we should completely fill up the roster with expense vet that we can't send down to Stockton. I just don't want us to build our roster by pencilling in rookies to spots they haven't earned.

Furthermore, especially on defence, I would much rather have Wotherspoon and Kylington playing top pairing minutes in Stockton than playing 5 minutes on the bottom pairing in Calgary (or sitting in the press box like we saw with Wotherspoon a few years ago).

The only defensemen that played a regular shift last season that came from Flames development was Brodie and Giordano. Surely this organization can produce some bottom pairing defensemen no? It seems like if prospects don't show they have top 4 potential they don't get a shot to stick around. I think it's a mistake to sign and overpay free agents to play bottom pairing as this team is running out of cap room and eventually you have to bite the bullet and have some faith in your scouting and developement.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The only defensemen that played a regular shift last season that came from Flames development was Brodie and Giordano. Surely this organization can produce some bottom pairing defensemen no? It seems like if prospects don't show they have top 4 potential they don't get a shot to stick around. I think it's a mistake to sign and overpay free agents to play bottom pairing as this team is running out of cap room and eventually you have to bite the bullet and have some faith in your scouting and developement.

I don't disagree with you on that. And Wotherspoon has probably demonstrated that he's never going to be a top 4 defender. In which case, maybe you go ahead and stick him in your bottom pairing.

But if the rest of our prospects have to choose between more ice time in Stockton and less ice time in Calgary, keep them in Stockton.

[Cactus Jack]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

Absolutely. Paying Russell $3M for a 5/6 role is unacceptable. There's got to be cheaper options out there. My point was simply that we can't take the Edmonton approach and leave spots wide open for our prospects; they need to earn the job.

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

Well, first of all, I'm not sure if they've intentionally left spots open up front. Secondly, I think there's a difference between allowing prospects to fight for a spot compared to choosing not to sign Russell because you've decided to pencil a specific prospect in. I was mostly reacting to the crowd that seems to think we should give Wotherspoon that spot rather than him taking it.

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Shedding Wideman and just keeping kids thins out the blueline substantially. You are suggesting the 6-7 Dmen are Wotherspoon and Kulak? The flames would be a couple injuries away from having absolutely no depth. If Wideman is moved then another vet like Russell, Seidenberg, or Grossman should be signed

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The only defensemen that played a regular shift last season that came from Flames development was Brodie and Giordano. Surely this organization can produce some bottom pairing defensemen no? It seems like if prospects don't show they have top 4 potential they don't get a shot to stick around. I think it's a mistake to sign and overpay free agents to play bottom pairing as this team is running out of cap room and eventually you have to bite the bullet and have some faith in your scouting and developement.

With Smid out, if you count Kevin and Engelland, we have 5 veteran D. If you resign Russell and/or Nakladal, that´s 6-7. If one of your kids make it (let´s be honest, we could use a 500k homegrown option on the 3rd pairing), it won´t be easy to move a contract or two. How do you fit the kid in if he makes the team? It´s been almost 5 years since a flames dman made the roster and stuck. Cap issues aside, maybe this is why Tre hasn´t signed Nak or Russell yet. Sigining them might mean a good camp from Wotherspoon or Kulak won´t be enough to play because of contracts and excess bodies

[PeteMoss]

Seems very clear that Nakladal isn't in the team's plans or else he'd have signed by now.

[GioforPM]

Yeah, unfortunately in my opinion

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

With Smid out, if you count Kevin and Engelland, we have 5 veteran D. If you resign Russell and/or Nakladal, that´s 6-7. If one of your kids make it (let´s be honest, we could use a 500k homegrown option on the 3rd pairing), it won´t be easy to move a contract or two. How do you fit the kid in if he makes the team? It´s been almost 5 years since a flames dman made the roster and stuck. Cap issues aside, maybe this is why Tre hasn´t signed Nak or Russell yet. Sigining them might mean a good camp from Wotherspoon or Kulak won´t be enough to play because of contracts and excess bodies

If you count Jokipakka and Engelland the Flames have 6 veteran D

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

With Smid out, if you count Kevin and Engelland, we have 5 veteran D. If you resign Russell and/or Nakladal, that´s 6-7. If one of your kids make it (let´s be honest, we could use a 500k homegrown option on the 3rd pairing), it won´t be easy to move a contract or two. How do you fit the kid in if he makes the team? It´s been almost 5 years since a flames dman made the roster and stuck. Cap issues aside, maybe this is why Tre hasn´t signed Nak or Russell yet. Sigining them might mean a good camp from Wotherspoon or Kulak won´t be enough to play because of contracts and excess bodies

Are you assuming we move Wideman? Or possibly that he gets sent down to Stockton? If not, our current defence depth is:

1. Giordano
2. Brodie
3. Hamilton
4. Jokipakka
5. Wideman
6. Engelland
7. Wotherspoon?

The 4-6 spots are up for debate, as is the #7 spot (among prospects). If you sign Russell, I would probably bump Engelland down to #7.

Obviously, injuries happen, which would allow for someone to jump into the lineup. But aside from Wotherspoon, I don't love the idea of any of our prospects getting called up just to sit upstairs as the #7 or play 5 minutes a night. I'd like them playing big minutes in Stockton.

Let Wideman, Engelland and Wotherspoon fight for those 5/6 roles and if you can get him cheap enough, bring Russell back for that bottom pairing competition as well.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

Are you assuming we move Wideman? Or possibly that he gets sent down to Stockton? If not, our current defence depth is:

1. Giordano
2. Brodie
3. Hamilton
4. Jokipakka
5. Wideman
6. Engelland
7. Wotherspoon?

The 4-6 spots are up for debate, as is the #7 spot (among prospects). If you sign Russell, I would probably bump Engelland down to #7.

Obviously, injuries happen, which would allow for someone to jump into the lineup. But aside from Wotherspoon, I don't love the idea of any of our prospects getting called up just to sit upstairs as the #7 or play 5 minutes a night. I'd like them playing big minutes in Stockton.

Let Wideman, Engelland and Wotherspoon fight for those 5/6 roles and if you can get him cheap enough, bring Russell back for that bottom pairing competition as well.

Wideman won't go to Stockton unless he oks it as he has nmc.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Wideman won't go to Stockton unless he oks it as he has nmc.

True, I forgot it's a NMC instead of a NTC.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Wideman won't go to Stockton unless he oks it as he has nmc.

Thanks, Obama Feaster.

[Alberta_Beef]

Even the suggestion of sending Wideman to the AHL shows how ridiculously stupid people have gotten in regards to him. He might be overpaid, but he is still an NHL quality defenseman in any organization.

[stang]

Originally Posted by codynw

Thanks, Obama Feaster.

Be thankful he doesn't have an extra year and you'd have to protect him

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Even the suggestion of sending Wideman to the AHL shows how ridiculously stupid people have gotten in regards to him. He might be overpaid, but he is still an NHL quality defenseman in any organization.

Don't agree with you on the "ridiculously stupid" comment. When Russell signs, Wideman should be the #6 defenseman, with an argument that Engelland could slot in above him in the right situation. And this isn't exactly the Canadiens of the 70's. I wont be shocked if Wideman can't get an NHL job next year. Hope I'm totally wrong.

[Samonadreau]

I think Wideman should be the number 7 D this year. He was barely nhl quality last year and his defensive game and foot-speed wasn't nhl quality. Maybe on the Oilers but not on a playoff team.

[Toonage]

He'll rotate in and out of the lineup with Engelland. I'm more interested who will be on the left side of that pairing.

[FlamesFanFromBC]

Not sure why so many people dump on Wideman.

Granted last year everthing and anything that could go wrong did but he's one year removed from a career best year where he was 4th in NHL dman scoring behind Karlsson, Subban and Burns.

[Stanley]

I think it's very possible for Wideman to have a decent bounce back season under Gulutzan with reduced ice-time, if he can just keep his game simple...I guess time will tell, but I won't dump on him like the majority. His contract is what's killing valuable cap space.

[FlamesFanFromBC]

True but can't dump on Wideman because spending money on D seems to be a team philosophy. I don't believe there is another team in league that spends over 40% of their cap on dmen like the Flames do, the average seems to be closer to 30%.