Did Kris Russell overplay his hand in free agency?

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I'm not saying leave a spot open for a prospect. I'm saying I'd rather not pay a guy $3M to play 5-6 minutes and the fact that a Wotherspoon, Kulak, Culkin or Morrisson if he has a comeback year might be able to fill the gap (or younger guys like Anderson or Kylington). I think those guys who would get a long look at training camp will need a viable spot to compete for. If you sign Russell for too much $ there's too much pressure to play him and the competition is weakened.

Absolutely. Paying Russell $3M for a 5/6 role is unacceptable. There's got to be cheaper options out there.

My point was simply that we can't take the Edmonton approach and leave spots wide open for our prospects; they need to earn the job.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

Absolutely. Paying Russell $3M for a 5/6 role is unacceptable. There's got to be cheaper options out there.

My point was simply that we can't take the Edmonton approach and leave spots wide open for our prospects; they need to earn the job.

Treliving has already said they've left spots open to fill internally. He didn't just hand them to young guys, but they've clearly left spots open up front at least.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

Absolutely. Paying Russell $3M for a 5/6 role is unacceptable. There's got to be cheaper options out there.

My point was simply that we can't take the Edmonton approach and leave spots wide open for our prospects; they need to earn the job.

Would Russell be a 5/6 or more of a 4 here? I don't think the Flames can afford a $3M contract without moving out someone else anyway

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Treliving has already said they've left spots open to fill internally. He didn't just hand them to young guys, but they've clearly left spots open up front at least.

Well, first of all, I'm not sure if they've intentionally left spots open up front. Aside from Brouwer, was there anyone worth signing this summer that could fill those spots? Especially in a cap crunch, our options are limited.

Secondly, I think there's a difference between allowing prospects to fight for a spot compared to choosing not to sign Russell because you've decided to pencil a specific prospect in. I was mostly reacting to the crowd that seems to think we should give Wotherspoon that spot rather than him taking it.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Would Russell be a 5/6 or more of a 4 here? I don't think the Flames can afford a $3M contract without moving out someone else anyway

With Smid going to LTIR we could fit it in.

The Flames currently have $7,351,600 in cap space. With Smid going on LTIR, that effective goes up to $10.8M (yes, as people have pointed out, LTIR is cap relief not addition room, but if the team plays their cards right, it basically works out to the same).

Even if Gaudreau signs for $7.8M (I hope not), that would leave the team with $3M left for Russell.

So, it's technically possible to sign Russell to that deal.

However, more to your point, it really depends on the depth chart. Obviously Gio, Brodie and Hamilton and 1, 2 and 3. Would you put Russell above Wideman, Jokipakka and Engelland?

Personally, I'd consider the depth chart to go:

1. Giordano
2. Brodie
3. Hamilton
4. Wideman
5. Jokipakka
6. Russell
7. Engelland

Of course, that's speculative and not based on much other than my feels as I sit hear typing this. I suppose looking at their "fancy stats" could reveal a better depth chart.

Either way, I'd suggest Russell is at best a bottom pairing defensemen and should be paid as such. 1 year at $1.5-2M wouldn't be horrible.

[IgiTang]

Maybe we can get Iginla and Tanguay back since there's spots open upfront.

See I can make silly suggestions too.

The Kris Russel era with the Flames is over and will hopefully remain that way, at any price.

The Flames need to start getting these younger guys some reps with the big club or they're going to start pulling Trouba's.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Maybe we can get Iginla and Tanguay back since there's spots open upfront.

See I can make silly suggestions too.

The Kris Russel era with the Flames is over and will hopefully remain that way, at any price.

The Flames need to start getting these younger guys some reps with the big club or they're going to start pulling Trouba's.

Flames don't have a Trouba to pull a Trouba anyway

i don't want Russell here unless Wideman is getting moved out. I will be upset if we lose Spoon on waivers

[IgiTang]

The Flames wouldn't be pulling a Trouba, the guys who are NHL ready and need to start getting NHL ice time would pull the Trouba is Russel re-joined the Flames.

That 6 and 7 spot are crucial for development.

Currently, Jokipakka and Engalland hold the 4 and 5 spots. Sure it's not ideal, but I think the ice time helps Jokipakka.

The Flames need to shed Wideman and not bring in a stop gap. We have plenty of guys looking to prove themselves on the farm.

[JiriHrdina]

None of the flames d prospects are going to demand a trade. If they did it would be greeted with laughter

[stang]

Who do you guys have on entry level contracts that have bonuses?

[bettman]

I have heard Flames are concerned Wideman's skating has deteriorated so much its a problem. If they can clear a couple of million don't be surprised Russel signs for 1 year 2.75m. A guess but its out there

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

The Flames wouldn't be pulling a Trouba, the guys who are NHL ready and need to start getting NHL ice time would pull the Trouba is Russel re-joined the Flames.

That 6 and 7 spot are crucial for development.

Currently, Jokipakka and Engalland hold the 4 and 5 spots. Sure it's not ideal, but I think the ice time helps Jokipakka.

The Flames need to shed Wideman and not bring in a stop gap. We have plenty of guys looking to prove themselves on the farm.

Shedding Wideman and just keeping kids thins out the blueline substantially. You are suggesting the 6-7 Dmen are Wotherspoon and Kulak? The flames would be a couple injuries away from having absolutely no depth. If Wideman is moved then another vet like Russell, Seidenberg, or Grossman should be signed

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Shedding Wideman and just keeping kids thins out the blueline substantially. You are suggesting the 6-7 Dmen are Wotherspoon and Kulak? The flames would be a couple injuries away from having absolutely no depth. If Wideman is moved then another vet like Russell, Seidenberg, or Grossman should be signed

At this point I would rather Kylington, Andersson, Culkin and really just about anybody over Grossman.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

Well, first of all, I'm not sure if they've intentionally left spots open up front. Aside from Brouwer, was there anyone worth signing this summer that could fill those spots? Especially in a cap crunch, our options are limited.

Secondly, I think there's a difference between allowing prospects to fight for a spot compared to choosing not to sign Russell because you've decided to pencil a specific prospect in. I was mostly reacting to the crowd that seems to think we should give Wotherspoon that spot rather than him taking it.

How many spots were left open during the Flames playoff run? I believe the rookies were Gaudreau, Ferland, Byron, Bouma, and Colborne. The Oilers failed because their vets were support players and the rookies were first liners. We had Hudler, Backs, Gio, Brodie, Hiller, Wideman and Russell playing key roles that year. Not too mention Iggy, Cammy, Jbo the year before, and now Brouwer, Frolik, Elliot, and so fourth.

Integration of young hungry rookies with smart and poised vets is the key I think

[burn_baby_burn]

Why would the Flames need to offer a significant amout of money for Russell at this point? Personally, I think the Russell era in Calgary is over. But for the posters that are throwing out $2.5-3 million per, I don't get it? Camps are in full swing the preseason has started and he doesn't have a job. Isn't it a buyers market at the moment?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Shedding Wideman and just keeping kids thins out the blueline substantially. You are suggesting the 6-7 Dmen are Wotherspoon and Kulak? The flames would be a couple injuries away from having absolutely no depth. If Wideman is moved then another vet like Russell, Seidenberg, or Grossman should be signed

If that happened it's time for the Nak attack.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

How many spots were left open during the Flames playoff run? I believe the rookies were Gaudreau, Ferland, Byron, Bouma, and Colborne. The Oilers failed because their vets were support players and the rookies were first liners. We had Hudler, Backs, Gio, Brodie, Hiller, Wideman and Russell playing key roles that year. Not too mention Iggy, Cammy, Jbo the year before, and now Brouwer, Frolik, Elliot, and so fourth.

Integration of young hungry rookies with smart and poised vets is the key I think

Colborne, Bouma and Byron weren't rookies in 14-15. Gaudreau, Ferland, Granlund and Jooris were.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

How many spots were left open during the Flames playoff run? I believe the rookies were Gaudreau, Ferland, Byron, Bouma, and Colborne. The Oilers failed because their vets were support players and the rookies were first liners. We had Hudler, Backs, Gio, Brodie, Hiller, Wideman and Russell playing key roles that year. Not too mention Iggy, Cammy, Jbo the year before, and now Brouwer, Frolik, Elliot, and so fourth.

Integration of young hungry rookies with smart and poised vets is the key I think

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Colborne, Bouma and Byron weren't rookies in 14-15. Gaudreau, Ferland, Granlund and Jooris were.

And they were rookies that earned their spots. I'm not saying we should completely fill up the roster with expense vet that we can't send down to Stockton. I just don't want us to build our roster by pencilling in rookies to spots they haven't earned.

Furthermore, especially on defence, I would much rather have Wotherspoon and Kylington playing top pairing minutes in Stockton than playing 5 minutes on the bottom pairing in Calgary (or sitting in the press box like we saw with Wotherspoon a few years ago).

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

And they were rookies that earned their spots. I'm not saying we should completely fill up the roster with expense vet that we can't send down to Stockton. I just don't want us to build our roster by pencilling in rookies to spots they haven't earned.

Furthermore, especially on defence, I would much rather have Wotherspoon and Kylington playing top pairing minutes in Stockton than playing 5 minutes on the bottom pairing in Calgary (or sitting in the press box like we saw with Wotherspoon a few years ago).

Wotherspoon has played 3 seasons in the AHL and is 23 years old. If he can't handle the NHL, I certainly don't want him taking good minutes from a prospect who hasn't busted yet. Kylington I can agree with

[GioforPM]

I don't think we are saying rookies don't have to earn their spot. But it'd be nice to have a spot to earn. If Russell is here, no way is he getting sent down because he's been beaten out by Kylington IMO. Not at $3M.