2 dead & 6 injured as teens take after hours sled ride down Winsport bobsleigh track

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Nyah

I thought physiotherapy and things like that would be covered?

Nope. Typically they would be covered by the insurance of the 'at fault' party.

[Fuzz]

The CBC story also mentioned dental bills, I could see those adding up quickly.

[nik-]

ugh

The fact that he never lost conciousness too is pretty insane. Being aware of all of that carnage

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Nyah

I doubt it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not offended when people thank their god for their recoveries. Just mildly annoyed when no praise goes to the medical community, that's all.

On topic: Just out of curiosity, they say they're raising funds to cover the massive medical bills. What medical bills wouldn't the health care system cover aside from the ambulance ride?

The vast majority of "religious" people I know would be very eager to praise the medical community in a situation like this. We recognize that God can work miracles through the hands of medical professionals, and by no means is that taking anything away from the good work that medical professionals do.

As for the second part, I wonder if there is a reduction in coverage because the kids were doing an illegal activity?

[FlamesAddiction]

The bare minimum for something might be covered, but if they want to go beyond the bare minimum, they might have to pay for it. The bare minimum isn't always a lot, and I think when it's your kid that is maimed and disabled, you will do whatever you can to go above and beyond.

Just for example, it might mean having to travel out of province perhaps to get treatment not available at home.

[habernac]

Doesn't have to be anything special. Anyone rehabbing a sports injury will tell you. Most plans cover about $500 per year for physio/massage. That's about 6 visits at the most. It'll be a lot more than that to fix the injuries this guy has.

[Inferno099]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Actually ya, there are plenty of cases of people dying because of their religious beliefs shunning healthcare. Children, too. That's no big secret.

And those words make some people feel worse. Like maybe the nurse or doctor in the room at the same time who's hard worked has been denigrated. Like I said, how would you feel if your work was attributed to God?

I understand there are many people who do believe in God (or a higher power); but when I think of people talking & saying God saved them they are or should be aware it is through the others we are here on the planet with (e.g. the doctors & medical professionals) who gave those who survived the chance.

Myself I think of this saying when folks say they are waiting for God to help but turn down help from others waiting for the divine sign.

http://epistle.us/inspiration/godwillsaveme.html

".....Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?....”

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Actually ya, there are plenty of cases of people dying because of their religious beliefs shunning healthcare. Children, too. That's no big secret.

And those words make some people feel worse. Like maybe the nurse or doctor in the room at the same time who's hard worked has been denigrated. Like I said, how would you feel if your work was attributed to God?

Not completely to do with your comment, it just reminded me. There was an accident the other day, near Crossfield. Drunk mom with her 4 year old riding along, rear-ended another vehicle on the QE2. Saw a discussion about it and a woman says she was 'thankful for God's protection as it happened just in front of them.' Ah. So he only looked after you and said 'eff those other people, and especially that 4 year old, let them get in a major accident and get hurt - only you deserve my protection because religion.'

Originally Posted by Nyah

On topic: Just out of curiosity, they say they're raising funds to cover the massive medical bills. What medical bills wouldn't the health care system cover aside from the ambulance ride?

A fair amount, actually. We spent thousands above and beyond what AHC covers after my daughter's accident and subsequent complications. For example, if you have to be on a PICC line (which she was, for 7 weeks), the meds were covered by our private insurance (otherwise they'd have been $300+/week) but the supplies for the PICC line - the tubing, syringes, batteries for the machine, sterile wipes, gloves, masks, sterile drapes, the dressing change kit, just to name a few things - those were not covered by anything and those supplies worked out to around $300/week. So for 7 weeks of treatment, we paid out around $2100, give or take.

The ONLY thing covered during her PICC line treatment was the weekly visit from the home health nurse, who came in to check the PICC site, and change the one covering directly over the PICC line insertion site - and we paid for/provided the kit she used to do the dressing change. We had to find and buy a little bag for the PICC pump to be carried in which wasn't expensive but when added in to the rest of the costs not covered, becomes just another bit of coin going out. Add in the loss of income for at least one parent, usually, because someone has to be available at all times in case the PICC line occludes or something goes wonky, plus the multiple appointments per week that someone has to ferry the patient back and forth for, well...

It can be daunting, the costs not covered. Gas, parking, therapies the doctors want that aren't covered by AHC or private insurance, the things the docs/nurses insist are needed and give you the gears for if you can't purchase them, etc etc etc; it can be a lot.

[taco.vidal]

More details of the night of the crash and what led up to it.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/c...well-1.3961869

Feb. 5, 2016, began as many other Friday nights for the eight teenagers.

Danny Spalding, David Carr and the Caldwells were attending a youth group run by the Rocky Mountain Calvary Chapel in Calgary.

Spalding's two mountain biking friends from Wetaskiwin, Alta. — brothers Wilson and Eric Schultz — were in town for the weekend and tagged along.

Hettinga and Mark Lyons were playing basketball at their high school, the Heritage Christian Academy.

"I think of this crew as kind of like 'youth group plus church friends plus a few others.' We are all Christians. That's how we all came together," said Carr, now 19.

But the plan to go "sledding" or take plastic toboggans down the bobsled track at Canada Olympic Park had been in the works ever since it was successfully tried a week earlier by three of the teens: Spalding, Hettinga and Evan Caldwell.

"It's scary…. The first time we did it we didn't know what to expect," said Spalding. "But after that, for me anyway, I just felt that it was the perfect thing. It gets your adrenalin going, but there's no way it could go wrong."

On that first night, the trio used helmets and head lamps. They did a few laps. At first it was one person per sled, but Hettinga thought they weren't going fast enough.

"Me and Evan came to a stop a couple of times: we were going too slow," Hettinga remembered.

"It was definitely not too dangerous that time, then we decided to double up and go a lot faster down it."

The worst that could happen — they thought — was they'd fall off their sleds and slide to a stop further down the track.

So as they shared their stories, boasting, they decided to return with more friends.

The return

On Feb. 5, 2016, the group of eight met at the top of the hill.

They scaled the perimeter fence with three plastic sleds in hand and headed towards the platform of the track.

It was shortly after midnight on Feb. 6, and they recall it being fairly dark with the exception of a few streetlights.

This time there would be no head lamps and no helmets.

"The [fact that] they had gone before took out a lot of doubts in our minds about just like normal precautions you would take for something like that, like checking ahead, and everything, just kinda slipped under the radar," said Wilson Schultz.

"I remember flying around the corner and seeing something and then I blacked out," said Hettinga.

He woke up moments later and couldn't speak or see.

"I thought I was dead for sure. I thought I was going to bleed out and die," he said. "I was starting to struggle to breathe because stuff was lodged in the back of my throat."

Hettinga and Lyons from the first sled ended up lying together in a corner of the track under a tarp, with major head and facial injuries. They didn't know immediately that their sledding mate, Evan Caldwell, had been killed, falling off the track near the barrier.

Back on the platform, the remaining teens were unaware of any problems. When Jordan Caldwell gave a push-off to the second sled, he recited the Lord's Prayer.

Wilson Schultz believes those last words saved his trio from serious harm.

Schultz broke his ankle, while his brother Eric and Spalding walked away.

"It's a miracle we passed through it," he said.

"It was right in front of us and then all of a sudden we were just through it."

There are fewer details about what exactly happened on the third sled, other than it hit the barrier, too. Jordan Caldwell was killed and Carr received a brain injury that impaired his memory.

"I'm lucky enough not to remember any of it, because it's still been hard: just the grief itself and the loss of a lot of things including functions of my body and also really, really good friends," said Carr, whose injury affects the right side of his body. He still faces another year of recovery.

First responders found the injured teens scattered along the track.

[chemgear]

Man, I didn't realize that these guys had broken in and gone for the rides a bunch of times. Some of these just make you shake your head.


"Me and Evan came to a stop a couple of times: we were going too slow," Hettinga remembered.

"It was definitely not too dangerous that time, then we decided to double up and go a lot faster down it."

So as they shared their stories, boasting, they decided to return with more friends.

"The [fact that] they had gone before took out a lot of doubts in our minds about just like normal precautions you would take for something like that, like checking ahead, and everything, just kinda slipped under the radar," said Wilson Schultz.

Back on the platform, the remaining teens were unaware of any problems. When Jordan Caldwell gave a push-off to the second sled, he recited the Lord's Prayer.

Wilson Schultz believes those last words saved his trio from serious harm.

[Reaper]

Such garbage. "It was part of God's plan..." Guess he's kind of dick if he figured he needed to kill two brothers to make a point that you shouldn't sled down an ice track. Especially if you just prayed to him. SMH

[Fuzz]

Back on the platform, the remaining teens were unaware of any problems. When Jordan Caldwell gave a push-off to the second sled, he recited the Lord's Prayer.
Wilson Schultz believes those last words saved his trio from serious harm.
Schultz broke his ankle, while his brother Eric and Spalding walked away.
"It's a miracle we passed through it," he said.
...
"Them being on different sleds and with the amount of us there, the odds that they would pass away side by side, together that night, and only them, is something I think God meant for that to happen. I know that's hard for people to wrap their heads around," said Carr.

Gee, maybe if the twins had prayed harder they wouldn't be dead.

This is all terribly sad, and I get that their faith is a coping mechanism, but it's also totally delusional. Hopefully one day these kids see that, and realize their actions alone control their life outcome, not how hard they pray.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Such garbage. "It was part of God's plan..." Guess he's kind of dick if he figured he needed to kill two brothers to make a point that you shouldn't sled down an ice track. Especially if you just prayed to him. SMH

It's a pretty brutal thing to say and throw at the family of the dead twins.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm talking about the guy in the article to claimed that his prayer saved him and his trio from harm while letting the others die.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by chemgear

It's a pretty brutal thing to say and throw at the family of the dead twins.

It's not brutal if it's factual. It's just truth. Let's not act like I went and rang their doorbell to tell them their mysticism is garbage.

[Buff]

It is possible to let people believe what they want and not be a total ####### about it.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Buff

It is possible to let people believe what they want and not be a total ####### about it.

People deserve respect; bad ideas do not. Don't hang out your Jesus banner in the newspaper and expect no one to criticize. I'm not saying they can't believe what they want. Believe in Santa for all I care but do not present your Bronze Age mysticism as truth and expect people to lap it up because you're not honest enough to say "I don't know". If that makes me an exit orifice then I'm fine with that. I'd rather live with my eyes open.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Reaper

It's not brutal if it's factual. It's just truth. Let's not act like I went and rang their doorbell to tell them their mysticism is garbage.

Oh, I'm not directing the comment at you. I agree with you. It's at the guy who claimed his prayer protected him and his trio but left the others dead.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Reaper

People deserve respect; bad ideas do not. Don't hang out your Jesus banner in the newspaper and expect no one to criticize. I'm not saying they can't believe what they want. Believe in Santa for all I care but do not present your Bronze Age mysticism as truth and expect people to lap it up because you're not honest enough to say "I don't know". If that makes me an exit orifice then I'm fine with that. I'd rather live with my eyes open.

I'm not sure why this bothers you so much, they are doing an interview with a newspaper and you are expecting them to not give their perspective?

I think they are out to lunch but I'm not going to get bent out of shape about it. It's an interview and I expect that they will say what they think and feel regardless how silly I think it is.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

I'm not sure why this bothers you so much, they are doing an interview with a newspaper and you are expecting them to not give their perspective?

I think they are out to lunch but I'm not going to get bent out of shape about it. It's an interview and I expect that they will say what they think and feel regardless how silly I think it is.

I'm just a general fan of preventing misinformation and the less a bad idea is repeated the better.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Reaper

I'm just a general fan of preventing misinformation and the less a bad idea is repeated the better.

It just seems like you are taking this personally or something.

It's not like by reading this article people are going to be like "you know, these kids are right. God is in control of my life and as long as I pray before I do something stupid I'll be good to go".