Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Johnny Makarov]

What a piece of kyit he is. Just boot him. He won't be missed.

[Fuzz]

Referencing the document again on Tuesday, Smith wrote on Twitter that the plan would "eliminate 2.7 million jobs."

But the federal government said that those numbers had been misinterpreted, and that the figures referred to the overall size of the workforce of various industries, not anticipated job losses.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...716397?cmp=rss

Smith and her UCP media mouthpieces had a major reading comprehension fail. I guess this is why I didn't understand the outrage earlier, because I had read it as it was, not as how they imagined it to be. The briefing document referenced is embedded in the article if you want to read it yourself. Looks pretty clear to me. But then, I'm not an idiot.

Is there anything Smith doesn't suck at? I guess we can add reading to the list. Imagine supporting this mentally deficient leader? Man, that'd be embarrassing.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I’m sure you’ll qualify for it.

The ANDP will then smartly fund the Filipino language program in schools with that cash, which I'm sure will absolutely just eat you up inside.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by harry lime

this is the main problem i ever have with energy transition. Honestly, 30 years might be generous. I would estimate the timeline to be closer to 50, just based on the speed that anything happens at a federal and global level.

Setting impossible timelines bothers me a lot.

Even if everything falls right, and something like fusion becomes a reality, we are talking about decades before they start to come online.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615465967609421835

[Cycling76er]

Originally Posted by StickMan

Don't you think it is madness for the "leader" of a country to try and "phase out" an industry that is currently booming and provides billions in tax dollars and untold numbers of high quality jobs (not to mention providing essential energy), all for the purpose of trying to reduce a less than 2% carbon footprint? This doesn't have anything to do with climate change, it is Trudeau sacrificing Alberta for the purpose of global virtue signaling. If you live in Alberta and this doesn't make you angry there is something wrong with you. If you are Canadian and you don't question this madness at all, you must hate your country.

I'd still like to hear your answer to Fuzz's question; when do YOU think it's the right time to transition?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615465967609421835

Any word on what Manchin thinks about Pilipino language classes?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Cycling76er

I'd still like to hear your answer to Fuzz's question; when do YOU think it's the right time to transition?

Well for starters, you can't transition until you have something viable to transition to. Which is why there is no transition right now. Even calling it a transition is preposterous, because we aren't moving from one thing to another; we use more oil than we did ten years ago, and we have nothing to actually replace that energy need. It's like a giant marketing exercise to convince people there's something happening and we can magically move away from fossil fuels, if only there was the political will. It's just not the case.

[Cycling76er]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well for starters, you can't transition until you have something viable to transition to.

Fair point.

Originally Posted by Slava

we use more oil than we did ten years ago, and we have nothing to actually replace that energy need.

Also fair.

I would argue that it's the increase in usage that's problematic. There are zero motivators to even want to transition. Not from a business perspective anyway. There is an environmental crisis happening right now. It's been happening for a really long time. That cannot be denied or even overstated.

So what then is the motivator to get economies and industries to change? When do these same entities realize that the stalling and apprehension can no longer be the status quo?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well for starters, you can't transition until you have something viable to transition to. Which is why there is no transition right now. Even calling it a transition is preposterous, because we aren't moving from one thing to another; we use more oil than we did ten years ago, and we have nothing to actually replace that energy need. It's like a giant marketing exercise to convince people there's something happening and we can magically move away from fossil fuels, if only there was the political will. It's just not the case.

Disagree. We are transitioning to lower carbon fuels, and even in Alberta, have been doing it since we decided to leave coal behind. The past few years we have added loads of wind and solar, offsetting carbon fuels. As someone working in the industry, we have transitioned from purely O&G exploration to adding lithium, helium, geothermal, and CCUS because O&G exploration is naturally decreasing. It would have been great to have government support for that transition in a just way, but we did it anyway, because of survival.

So I think you have to have your head in the sand to not see that a transition is happening all around us, whether we like it or not. As the world population grows and economic output increases globally(particularly in the 3rd world) then it makes sense that O&G consumption will increase. Not many are pretending we will abandon it(and those people are foolish) but it is equally foolish to not capitalize on the new industries. What you should be looking at is the percent of energy share, which you will see is decreasing for O&G, even as raw numbers increase. It's an expanding pie, and we should be taking a slice.

O&G will be around for decades to come, but as Albertans, we shouldn't expect our previous industry to return to what it was. It isn't ever going to happen. That means less people drilling, less exploration, and less of everything around that, unless we re-target those efforts to new industries, for which we have expertise.

[Cycling76er]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It's an expanding pie, and we should be taking a slice.

Absolutely this. It's about making the pie bigger. It's not about taking it away.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by StickMan

Facts like Canada is less then 2% of global emissions? Facts like China and India are currently building new coal power plants? Facts like oil demand is still increasing? Facts like there is no real alternative to fossil fuels yet? Those kind of facts? Because ya they don't seem to matter.

These are really tired, disingenuous facts.

There is no right or wrong way to consider this, but the annual territorial figure you're trotting out is particularly weak.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...196-0/fulltext

While this method has its own flaws, its totally reasonable to consider history and proportionality:

As of 2015, the USA was responsible for 40% of excess global CO2 emissions. The European Union (EU-28) was responsible for 29%. The G8 nations (the USA, EU-28, Russia, Japan, and Canada) were together responsible for 85%.

[RedHot25]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615391814726606848

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615427151209332737

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615428436683808769

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615431818655993856

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615434342918160384

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615436356259565570

[Ozy_Flame]

One thing that is happening - whether Just Transition or not - is that automation is already taking jobs. Kenney's corporate tax cut back in 2019 didn't put jobs back in the O/G offices - market demand did. But O/G had also spent the previous five years replacing jobs with streamlined business operations and automation where possible (and still happening to this day).

Then beyond that, as Fuzz articulated, the energy portfolio is already diversifying - and that's not a government program, that's private sector enterprises making the switch because the market demand is there and growing.

All of this to say that any federal program that is going to assist workers with transitioning to other jobs, including building new skillsets, should not be seen as some gross replacement conspiracy that the UCP and their pundits are making it out to be.

Either help these people find work in new lines of business, or do nothing at all. I prefer the former, and I think many reasonable Albertans would agree.

U of A professor Andrew Leach was on CBC today (Minister Sonya Savage was on as well) demonstrating that this isn't some nefarious concept from the feds. She was pulling the Chicken Little routine. It was predictable, tiresome, and flat out wrong in some aspect (e.g. she said the US Inflation Reduction Act was a superior document, even though it effective promotes Just Transition measures as well).

[Fuzz]

One thing is for sure, Postmedia should be ashamed of themselves for all the opinion pieces they pushed out without even bothering to figure out facts. What an embarrassment. Let's see if they issue any sort of correction on their fearmongering Smith suckling nonsense.

Also amusing that David Staples gets it wrong again! LOSER.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Disagree. We are transitioning to lower carbon fuels, and even in Alberta, have been doing it since we decided to leave coal behind. The past few years we have added loads of wind and solar, offsetting carbon fuels. As someone working in the industry, we have transitioned from purely O&G exploration to adding lithium, helium, geothermal, and CCUS because O&G exploration is naturally decreasing. It would have been great to have government support for that transition in a just way, but we did it anyway, because of survival.

So I think you have to have your head in the sand to not see that a transition is happening all around us, whether we like it or not. As the world population grows and economic output increases globally(particularly in the 3rd world) then it makes sense that O&G consumption will increase. Not many are pretending we will abandon it(and those people are foolish) but it is equally foolish to not capitalize on the new industries. What you should be looking at is the percent of energy share, which you will see is decreasing for O&G, even as raw numbers increase. It's an expanding pie, and we should be taking a slice.

O&G will be around for decades to come, but as Albertans, we shouldn't expect our previous industry to return to what it was. It isn't ever going to happen. That means less people drilling, less exploration, and less of everything around that, unless we re-target those efforts to new industries, for which we have expertise.

Well it’s not mutually exclusive. You can be in favour of pursuing these burgeoning sectors of energy and still push to supply the energy that’s demanded globally. The argument shouldn’t be for/against though, it should be a push toward a common goal of supplying energy in whatever form.

Canada has made enormous strides in reducing emissions in the energy sector. We should absolutely supply as much as possible, while it’s still in demand.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well it’s not mutually exclusive. You can be in favour of pursuing these burgeoning sectors of energy and still push to supply the energy that’s demanded globally. The argument shouldn’t be for/against though, it should be a push toward a common goal of supplying energy in whatever form.

Canada has made enormous strides in reducing emissions in the energy sector. We should absolutely supply as much as possible, while it’s still in demand.

Wouldn’t the best approach to finding a common goal or compromise be having Alberta’s elected officials partake in discussions with the federal government rather than starting a flame war over twitter?

I can’t understand how anyone can support a provincial government that refuses to perform the most basic fundamentals of their job. I’ve yet in my life to see an agreement be negotiated between two parties who refuse to engage in any form of discussion.

[b1crunch]

Originally Posted by StickMan

Facts like Canada is less then 2% of global emissions? Facts like China and India are currently building new coal power plants? Facts like oil demand is still increasing? Facts like there is no real alternative to fossil fuels yet? Those kind of facts? Because ya they don't seem to matter.

I discussed some these 'facts' with you in another thread months ago. But these 'facts' you state are useless and mind-numblingly ridiculous.

Canada will likely has a tiny fraction of an impact on most (if not all) global problems facing the world right now. It's due to our tiny population in comparison to most other world powers. So does that mean Canada gets a free pass on dealing with nearly every issue?

Canada likely has a fraction of the instances of domestic violence that other larger countries have (such as USA/Russia/China/India), therefore Canada shouldn't do anything about domestic violence in its own country.

Does that sound reasonable? If that sounds like reasonable logic to you, then you're lost.

And since when did we decide its better to follow China and India's lead on an issue? FFS... Canada is a global leader in lots of different ways, and you're promoting we sit back and wait until China and India have their go at it?

Your logic is so broken, it's painful.

[b1crunch]

Am I wrong or is the 'Just Transition' program optional for workers?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by b1crunch

I discussed some these 'facts' with you in another thread months ago. But these 'facts' you state are useless and mind-numblingly ridiculous.

Canada will likely has a tiny fraction of an impact on most (if not all) global problems facing the world right now. It's due to our tiny population in comparison to most other world powers. So does that mean Canada gets a free pass on dealing with nearly every issue?

Canada likely has a fraction of the instances of domestic violence that other larger countries have (such as USA/Russia/China/India), therefore Canada shouldn't;t do anything about domestic violence in its own country.

Does that sound reasonable? If that sounds like reasonable logic to you, then you're lost.

And since when do we decide its better to follow China and India's lead on an issue? FFS... Canada is a global leader in lots of different ways, and you're promoting we sit back and wait until China and India have their go at it?

Your logic is so broken, it's painful.

It’s not that Canada gets a free pass, but why would we willing cripple ourselves knowing that we have that minor impact? It’s just plainly stupid.

[Fuzz]

What part of the plan is crippling ourselves? These feel like straw man arguments.