[Trade] Flames trade Baertschi to VAN for a 2015 2nd round pick (Baertschi requested trade)

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Yep. Sven has been overrated overall by the fan base because of his early success. He really hasn't progressed much since then.

An indication of this overrating was our prospect poll this summer when Sven was ranked by the "majority" ahead of guys like Poirier and Granlund who based on their production and potential had passed him already by last summer IMO and I argued it at the time. Another mediocre season and it was obvious he was behind Bennett, Monahan, Gaudreau, Poirier, Granlund, Backlund, Hudler, and perhaps even Ferland. So where does he fit long term? He just didn't force his way into our future plans. That's the bottom line. He impressed the least out of all of our top end prospects.

I agree with everything except for the timeline. I do think that Baertschi warranted his high ranking last off-season. I personally feel one season early on in a prospect's development - especially after turning pro - should be taken with a grain of salt. Some prospects just have a tough time transitioning.

However, after 2 years, your synopsis is bang on. Completely agree with your take on it.

As for everyone freaking out over this trade, I wouldn't be too worried.

2 seasons of below-expectations starts becoming a trend. Other prospects have certainly been developing and exceeding expectations. I don't think there is much - if anything - wrong with the development system.

One thing that sticks out to me especially now, is Baertschi's attitude. Ok, so nothing has ever been confirmed. We heard rumors about the Penticton tournament, and how Baertschi felt he shouldn't have gone. That is one strike. Then when he got sent down at the start of the season - even though he was without a doubt out-played by a number of other prospects who got sent down ahead of Baertschi (i.e. Ferland) - there was that statement his dad made. Sure, we can make a case for that newspaper being the type that likes to create their own headlines, but there was probably at least some smoke for them to write it up, exaggerated or not.

Now we find out that Baertschi told the Flames he will not be re-signing with the Flames. To me, that was of course strike 3.

What has Baertschi proven? He hasn't looked great beyond the occasional flash. He hasn't looked like a 'hungry' prospect out there. He does look weak - especially in puck battles. He was not NHL ready, period.

He DOES have that potential. Really does. However, with each passing season, you see that potential fading somewhat.

Now think about this. Not knowing a thing about Baertschi and his junior season post-draft, does he really look like a 'standout' in any way? For stat-watchers, absolutely not. For the 'eye test' - he looks a step behind often, and weak. I honestly thought Baertschi would be much stronger and closer to the NHL than Granlund. Can anyone say with a straight face that Baertschi is better than Granlund right now?

It is still too early to say that Baertschi is a 'bust', or that his ceiling is lowered, or anything else. He could very well still achieve what most people assumed he would be - a 1st line LW'er. However, he simply wasn't progressing. I am ok with trading him away. Even to the Canucks. This is my take on it:

If Treliving and the rest of the hockey ops department feel that Baertschi is not going to succeed as an NHL player, than having Vancouver give up a 2nd for him will hurt that organization. Of course, there is the chance that he does succeed, and it will prove to be a terrible trade. Perhaps the other offers for Baertschi were substantially lower, and Treliving just made the best of the situation. There can be little doubt that he didn't shop Baertschi around quite a lot first.

Only time will tell who the winner and the loser. It could still be a win-win, or either Calgary or Vancouver will outright lose the trade. As it stands today, Treliving made the best of the situation, and received a 2nd round pick in a very deep draft. I am ok with it.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

At the time of the draft, only teams that finished in the bottom 5 could draft first overall.

And even now, the bottom 5 teams have a much higher likelihood.

Baertschi was a mid-first round pick.

And in reality, that should not affect how you view him.

I actually think the teams outside the bottom 5 have more combined likelihood to win.

[PeteLFan]

Did anyone actually watch him play? You could tell he wasn't going to be a NHL player, you can have all the skill in the world by you still need to compete and work hard two things not in his repertoire.

His last game was probably his most impressive but that doesn't say much and he's unbelievably soft. He has had man off seasons to train hard and get stronger and it's clear he didn't. Sven was usless and we turned a guy who will be toiling in the Swiss league to a second rounder. Smart move.

Sven will never ever be a NHL player.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Tyler

I think we can all agree that we should stop drafting goofy Euro's with our first round picks and stick to good ol' Canadian boys, eh?!

Spoiler!

Jankowski who??!!!

To an extent I agree. Monahan and Bennett look like they will be amazing for us for the next decade and very easily we could have had Lindholm and Draisaitl. I don't know if them being Canadian is the difference but I definitely love a team stacked full of quality Canadians.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

I actually think the teams outside the bottom 5 have more combined likelihood to win.

In 2011, teams outside the bottom 5 could win the lottery, but they could not draft 1st overall under any circumstances.

NJ actually won the lottery that year but did not draft 1st overall.

At the time, only the top 5 picks were considered "lottery picks".

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Jankowski was a terrible pick considering the players that were still available with our original pick and even when we moved down. Also considering his ranking and the fact that he was playing high school hockey. Too much risk for a high pick on a team with basically no prospects at the time. I can live with the Sven pick because the draft wasn't all that good and I don't think there were any players available that really stood out ahead of him. Just unfortunately he didn't pan out. I wonder if we would have transitioned him a bit slower if it would have helped but almost seemed like Baertschi felt he deserved to be up here. Not sure if that was because of expectations management gave him or just his personality.

Are you kidding me? Of the 180 players selected after Jankowski only 7 have played more than the max number to be still considered a rookie. Jankowski has potential to be a top six player and has the size, skill, skating ability and smarts to be an exceptional checking center, playing behind Bennett and Monahan. Get a grip man. He's still developing and developing well.

[CalgaryFan1988]

nm, ashasx answered above.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

I actually think the teams outside the bottom 5 have more combined likelihood to win.

63% a bottom 5 team picks #1. We can all thank Edmonton for the new draft odds/rules.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by PeteLFan

He has had man off seasons to train hard and get stronger and it's clear he didn't.

This is simply false.

Baertschi has consistently had among the highest fitness test results of any Flame these last few seasons, nevermind just the prospects.

This also isn't considering the concussion/neck injury he suffered at the end of the 2013 season and his broken ribs last year.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

He's saying When Baertschi was drafterd, nobody outside the bottom 5 could win the lottery, it changed since he was drafted.

Yeah, I'm saying as of this year 13 would be lottery pick.

[FlameZilla]

Sven was just starting to get hot in the AHL. He'll be raring to go and prove himself in a new organisation. Don't be surprised if he starts strong.

Longterm I don't see him being anything more than an average 2nd line LW. A top 6 forward, but only just. I personally don't think he's fast enough to be a game breaker like he was in junior. He's either a gear too slow, or his mental game is leaving him one step behind the play.

Again, I kinda hoped we'd see the best of him now that Glenny's gone, but Gaudreau, Raymond, Bouma, Granlund and Ferland are all ahead of him on the depth chart.

[Darkknight]

I don't see the hype that folks on here have for Granlund so I personally don't see him as having passed Baertschi
It's a shame that a team that's struggled with offence lately would trade away one of their more offensively talented.prospects. I suppose him requesting a trade did force BT's hand though. At the same time I'm sure glad Burke wasn't around to lay into Backlund as he was learning to be a complete player in the NHL.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Has anyone drafted outside the top ten in 2011 really established themselves yet?

[PeteLFan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

This is simply false.

Baertschi has consistently had among the highest fitness test results of any Flame these last few seasons, nevermind just the prospects.

This also isn't considering the concussion/neck injury he suffered at the end of the 2013 season and his broken ribs last year.

I didn't question his conditioning. Those physicals don't tell you how strong a guy is. Sven was soft lost every puck battle was removed from the puck easily.

I'm sure he can ride the bike really fast, but none of that correlated into work ethic on the ice and out competing someone.

He's clearly not a hard working hockey player, doesn't bode well for the future.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by New Era

Are you kidding me? Of the 180 players selected after Jankowski only 7 have played more than the max number to be still considered a rookie. Jankowski has potential to be a top six player and has the size, skill, skating ability and smarts to be an exceptional checking center, playing behind Bennett and Monahan. Get a grip man. He's still developing and developing well.

Ya but you also have to consider that we dropped from 14 to pick him. All 7 of the players selected from 14 to 21 have played in the NHL and 4 of them have played over 100 games. Jankowski might turn out to be a player but I think there were a lot less risky picks we could have selected. I'd say it's more likely right now that he doesn't turn into an impact player than he does but that's just my take. I would much rather a Hertl, Girgenson, Maata, Ceci, Wilson, or even Teravainen.

[transplant99]

No one should take issue with this trade really.

he had stagnated as a Flame, and more than anything else didnt want to be a part of things moving forward as clearly he knows he has been passed by at least 5 or 6 guys in the last 6 months alone and was going to lose waiver ability after this season.....meaning if he did come and try one more season and didnt make the team, he could have been claimed by Buffalo or Toronto or Edmonton etc...likely not as appealing as getting dealt somewhere specific so he has a chance to make an impression this year and try to wrangle another deal from them.

I get that people dont like the team he went too, but who cares in the end? He wasn't coming back and his chances of making the Canucks is no better than it was here.

Cest la vie.

Considering the return, its a really nice trade by Treliving who has had to deal with a lot of adversity the last couple weeks leading into todays decision.

[TSXCman]

I am with the poor asset management opinion. You just don't let this stuff come to the wire and make a desperation move.

Sven hasn't really shown to be that selfish or 1-dimensioned, but he sure got called out for it. This is the kind of thing that breeds a future flames killer in the division.

If they knew he was flat out not resigning, then add him to a package for an asset. Just getting a later 2nd for him is a poor return.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Has anyone drafted outside the top ten in 2011 really established themselves yet?

Just this little fella:

[devo22]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Has anyone drafted outside the top ten in 2011 really established themselves yet?

Brandon Saad
Matthew Nieto
Nikita Kucherov
Andrew Shaw
Ondrej Palat

are the ones who have more than 100 NHL games already.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Has anyone drafted outside the top ten in 2011 really established themselves yet?

Is Gaudreau established?