07-13-2021, 02:40 PM
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#6161
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubicon
Activity for us (my employer) is picking up and we are really being challenged to meet the demand. Supply issues for parts and materials has stretched into ridiculous lead times which our customers are not happy about and who do not want to pay for the increased cost. Not sure how much that matters however as we are finding it incredibly difficult to hire anyone for our shops in Nisku and Calgary, and for our field locations. People have been burned too often with boom/bust or have drank the coolaid and don't want to come work in the 'dead end' oil industry. CERB isn't helping either, it's probably time to wind that program down.
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I don’t think it’s cerb. Every vendor I talk to can’t get guys because no one wants the cyclical work away from home anymore. Been trying to get a rig in SE sask for a while now. Still haven’t locked something down.
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07-13-2021, 03:29 PM
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#6162
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weitz
I don’t think it’s cerb. Every vendor I talk to can’t get guys because no one wants the cyclical work away from home anymore. Been trying to get a rig in SE sask for a while now. Still haven’t locked something down.
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CERB is likely only a small factor, we've only had a few interviewees that have mentioned it. Shop staff don't like the boom/bust, work your a$$ off only to be laid off next downturn. The field guys are a surprise, this time around it's our veteran workers who have had enough and don't want to go back. These are guys who've been on rigs their entire careers and have had enough, and they're not that old. Most in their 30's at the oldest and starting to have families. Work has become so high pressure and they are literally watched 24/7 by Calgary, it's no fun anymore either. Someone always on their a$$ about something.
Every time there's a downturn the industry loses people permanently. This one feels different because the recovery is not that dramatic but we are already feeling the labor crunch.
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07-14-2021, 05:25 AM
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#6163
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sherwood Park, AB
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Lubicon hit the nail on the head. I'm a pipefitter by trade and the wage now is the same that it was when I first got my ticket in 2011. Only now most employers are only offering 10 hour days, no travel and the increasingly hostile environment Lubicon alluded to.
I was recently working on a bunch of small outages where we had a crew of 12 guys. The client had 11 people watching us the entire time. It was absolutely insane the waste of money and the distrust of the contractor. Every year I seem to be more surprised by the lack of knowledge and experience in top positions and the "step over a loonie to pick up a dime" mentality.
Last edited by indes; 07-14-2021 at 08:28 AM.
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07-14-2021, 08:11 AM
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#6164
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indes
Lubicon hit the nail on the head. I'm a pipefitter by trade and the wage now is the same that it was when I first got my ticket in 2011. Only now most employers are only offering 10 hour days, no travel and the increasingly hostile environment Lubicon alluded to.
I was recently working on a bunch of small outages where I had a crew of 12 guys. The client had 11 people watching us the entire time. It was absolutely insane the waste of money and the distrust of the contractor. Every year I seem to be more surprised by the lack of knowledge and experience in top positions and the "step over a loonie to pick up a dime" mentality.
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11 to watch 12 definitely is a huge WTF issue. I've worked for end users where their QA/QC programs have been getting out of control - seems like inspectors for just about everything resulting in massive budget bloat. Also too many decision makers and leaders in the Calgary offices that have never worked outside of their offices - only field experience has been a few chaperoned tours. Very rare to find someone in the big offices with fabrication/assembly shop experience, let alone EPCM as well.
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07-15-2021, 11:42 AM
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#6165
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Franchise Player
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More anecdotal evidence of the labor crunch. We were supposed to mobilize to a Savanna Drilling rig this week but the work has been delayed as they cannot crew it. Precision Drilling supposedly was running a class for new hires with room for 25-30 and had 4 applications. Industry is talking about the possibility of 250 rigs by Q1 but the consensus at work is industry would be lucky to be able to staff 175 and that doesn't even begin to count the shortage in the other services. We're routinely waiting on cementers now due to crew shortages.
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07-17-2021, 11:21 AM
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#6166
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Crash and Bang Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubicon
More anecdotal evidence of the labor crunch. We were supposed to mobilize to a Savanna Drilling rig this week but the work has been delayed as they cannot crew it. Precision Drilling supposedly was running a class for new hires with room for 25-30 and had 4 applications. Industry is talking about the possibility of 250 rigs by Q1 but the consensus at work is industry would be lucky to be able to staff 175 and that doesn't even begin to count the shortage in the other services. We're routinely waiting on cementers now due to crew shortages.
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Do you know what leasehands start at right now?
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07-25-2021, 10:11 PM
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#6168
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Franchise Player
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Smaller shops are paying more.
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07-26-2021, 09:35 PM
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#6169
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
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The labour crunch isn't sector specific. I can't get cashiers, stock people, supervisors or anything. I've been down a full time pharmacist short since November. I'm doing 60 hour weeks every week because there's just no one. Relief pharmacy agencies will book then 2 weeks out apologize for cancelling.
We phoned around for a quote to rebuild our deck. Only one local contractor even returned the call. He came, got some measurements, then ghosted. He said it's insane because there's so much work but no one can hire
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07-30-2021, 02:30 PM
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#6170
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Atomic Nerd
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
The labour crunch isn't sector specific. I can't get cashiers, stock people, supervisors or anything. I've been down a full time pharmacist short since November. I'm doing 60 hour weeks every week because there's just no one. Relief pharmacy agencies will book then 2 weeks out apologize for cancelling.
We phoned around for a quote to rebuild our deck. Only one local contractor even returned the call. He came, got some measurements, then ghosted. He said it's insane because there's so much work but no one can hire
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What's the cause of the labor crunch outside of O&G? It can't all be people who are still preferring to live off CERB/EI? Did everybody suddenly find a remote job that they can do by Zoom from home?
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07-30-2021, 02:39 PM
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#6171
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
What's the cause of the labor crunch outside of O&G? It can't all be people who are still preferring to live off CERB/EI? Did everybody suddenly find a remote job that they can do by Zoom from home?
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We'll know for sure by the end of Sept when Cerb ends, and a lot of peoples benefits end.
Its a lot of factors. A lot of people in certain skilled groups have moved on from their normal career path. There are people on benefits that want to go to the last minutes.
But right now, it really is a sellers market which is a dynamic shift from about 3 months ago when it was a buyers marker.
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08-02-2021, 07:55 AM
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#6172
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sherwood Park, AB
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Ya the labour crunch is insane. In BC they estimate they are short 40k employees in the hospitality industry. I can attest as I can barely staff my restaurant. It's quite the situation as even if I could hire people the hiked up minimum wage is kicking my ass. My mind is blown that people don't want to work for $15.20/hr. That seems like a ton of money for a young adult working part time.
To relate to O&G, I've been getting a lot of "cold call" emails from companies looking for people, which I haven't received since probably 2014. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like like the demand is driving up compensation or perks.
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08-02-2021, 02:05 PM
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#6173
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Crash and Bang Winger
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Right now unemployment is around 9%. I understand wanting to get out of O&G to something more stable but bills still have to be paid. Also, how many jobs are there in other sectors? It is a finite amount so where is everyone going?
As for the hospitality sector, were they put on cerb or ei? They might be waiting it out as things are still not stable and a possibility of restrictions again.
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08-02-2021, 04:21 PM
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#6174
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California
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I think another aspect of it is that after 18 months or so of not having money expenses were reduced and living arrgangememts changed to reduce costs.
On the oil field side this could be housing downsizes and toy and travel reductions. Once you reach that new normal of spending you may realize that the additional pay was not bringing additional happiness. People also may have retired as well slightly less well off then they planned but it probably takes a lot to get these people back into the job market.
On the hospitality side things like moving back in with your parents instead of havi a second or part time job likely take a chunk of people out of the market or at least reduce the hours they are willing to work.
I think Covid forced people to stop spending money and that 3 initial months of no travel, not eating out, no driving to work changed peoples habits and made people aware of how much they spend. This didn’t happen everywhere but at the margins people feeling they need less money probably ties into the difficulties in finding employees.
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08-03-2021, 08:08 AM
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#6175
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Crash and Bang Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
I think another aspect of it is that after 18 months or so of not having money expenses were reduced and living arrgangememts changed to reduce costs.
On the oil field side this could be housing downsizes and toy and travel reductions. Once you reach that new normal of spending you may realize that the additional pay was not bringing additional happiness. People also may have retired as well slightly less well off then they planned but it probably takes a lot to get these people back into the job market.
On the hospitality side things like moving back in with your parents instead of havi a second or part time job likely take a chunk of people out of the market or at least reduce the hours they are willing to work.
I think Covid forced people to stop spending money and that 3 initial months of no travel, not eating out, no driving to work changed peoples habits and made people aware of how much they spend. This didn’t happen everywhere but at the margins people feeling they need less money probably ties into the difficulties in finding employees.
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I'm going to disagree with you anecdotally and point out that every used truck, boat, Sea-doo etc. on Kijiji is asking a king's ransom...not to mention house price bumping up even in Alberta. Someone is spending money, I guess it might not be specifically the same oilfield guys as before
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08-03-2021, 09:13 AM
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#6176
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
On the hospitality side things like moving back in with your parents instead of havi a second or part time job likely take a chunk of people out of the market or at least reduce the hours they are willing to work.
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I suspect this is a big part of it. A 25-year-old living with parents does not have a lot of costs, and can get by comfortably for some time on CERB or other government support programs. Why work four 6-hour shifts a week at a restaurant or the mall to make $2k when you can collect $1.5k and stay home?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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08-03-2021, 01:14 PM
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#6177
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
I think another aspect of it is that after 18 months or so of not having money expenses were reduced and living arrgangememts changed to reduce costs.
On the oil field side this could be housing downsizes and toy and travel reductions. Once you reach that new normal of spending you may realize that the additional pay was not bringing additional happiness. People also may have retired as well slightly less well off then they planned but it probably takes a lot to get these people back into the job market.
On the hospitality side things like moving back in with your parents instead of havi a second or part time job likely take a chunk of people out of the market or at least reduce the hours they are willing to work.
I think Covid forced people to stop spending money and that 3 initial months of no travel, not eating out, no driving to work changed peoples habits and made people aware of how much they spend. This didn’t happen everywhere but at the margins people feeling they need less money probably ties into the difficulties in finding employees.
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It makes you wonder if this is reflective of the current insane housing market.
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08-03-2021, 01:37 PM
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#6178
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indes
In BC they estimate they are short 40k employees in the hospitality industry. I can attest as I can barely staff my restaurant. It's quite the situation as even if I could hire people the hiked up minimum wage is kicking my ass. My mind is blown that people don't want to work for $15.20/hr. That seems like a ton of money for a young adult working part time.
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I'm curious how old you are, and how that colours your perception of "a ton of money for a young adult".
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08-03-2021, 05:09 PM
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#6179
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Section 307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayo
I'm going to disagree with you anecdotally and point out that every used truck, boat, Sea-doo etc. on Kijiji is asking a king's ransom...not to mention house price bumping up even in Alberta. Someone is spending money, I guess it might not be specifically the same oilfield guys as before
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My cousin in Saskatoon bought a snowmobile from a guy in Fort McMurray that he listed on Kijiji. He was asking $14,000 but sold it to my cousin for $6500.
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08-03-2021, 09:52 PM
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#6180
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damn onions
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timun
I'm curious how old you are, and how that colours your perception of "a ton of money for a young adult".
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$15.20/hr is (very) firmly below the poverty line in Calgary. Not sure about BC or wherein BC but it definitely is a very far cry from “a ton of money”.
In fact there’s a chance you may be able to beg on the street and get that and dictate your own hours.
My brother cannot keep staff at $20/hr to cut lawns.
You know people like to criticize oil and gas workers for being paid so much but it’s actually more that any other industry, equally or more profitable, pay their staff outrageously low. Look at banking for example. Record profits billions every quarter and they pay like absolute garbage. It’s actually unbelievable people put up with that crap but at the end of the day it’s just the labour market I guess.
Large companies need to pay more and realize that business is not exclusively at the behest of shareholders but of stakeholders of which employees are one of…………… organizations that treat / pay employees badly I kind of hope go bankrupt and I definitely refuse to invest in them.
Last edited by Mr.Coffee; 08-03-2021 at 09:55 PM.
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