Russia invades Ukraine

[Firebot]

Putin's upcoming victory parade on TV got disrupted by a massive TV hack hitting the TV schedule page.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1523554493144584192

Not able to hide it anymore to the TV watching troglodytes.

[GordonBlue]

I'm ok with being a worse person than Jayswin, as every time a Russian soldier in Ukraine dies, I'm ok with it.
I'm not letting out a cheer, but the faster they all die the faster Russia can hopefully get out of there.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by jayswin

****, I stand by my feelings earlier on in the thread towards continuing to humanize russian soldiers without cheering on their deaths with satisfaction, that I got absolutely roasted for, but man it gets harder and harder. I'll remain that way though, as it's important to me as a person.

But still.....****.

Except for the soldiers that will rape and Murder Women, Children and the elderly, which seems to be a good portion of them. I have no problem with that group getting a bullet between the eyes.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Putin's upcoming victory parade on TV got disrupted by a massive TV hack hitting the TV schedule page.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1523554493144584192

Not able to hide it anymore to the TV watching troglodytes.

I hope you're right, but after the last 10-15 years or so, I don't see people as just naïve dupes anymore...

there's large groups of the population that willingly, actively, seek to drink the koolaid

Things that would have seemed preposterous 10-15 years ago, are being talked about, or have happened, without much outcry...and if there is, its become so partisan, it not the acct anymore, only who it is coming from. That's in countries with Freedom of the Press...for countries without that, I would assume that the brainwashing is more pervasive.

The Russians will simply blame whatever the BLM equivalent is over there and "the Capitalists"

but at least no major action today...so that's one positive

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by jayswin

****, I stand by my feelings earlier on in the thread towards continuing to humanize russian soldiers without cheering on their deaths with satisfaction, that I got absolutely roasted for, but man it gets harder and harder. I'll remain that way though, as it's important to me as a person.

But still.....****.

Yes, there is a human aspect even among the combatants. But a state that is being invaded and occupied buy a hostile force has every right to capture or annihilate the invading force if they can. In a way, it's transactional; you enter my country uninvited, you die.

Each Russian has a choice to avoid death and capture since this is clearly an unjust war.

Each hostile Russian that is neutralized means less and less human suffering overall, and that is ultimately the goal: end the human suffering on all sides.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

I hope you're right, but after the last 10-15 years or so, I don't see people as just naïve dupes anymore...

there's large groups of the population that willingly, actively, seek to drink the koolaid

Things that would have seemed preposterous 10-15 years ago, are being talked about, or have happened, without much outcry...and if there is, its become so partisan, it not the acct anymore, only who it is coming from. That's in countries with Freedom of the Press...for countries without that, I would assume that the brainwashing is more pervasive.

The Russians will simply blame whatever the BLM equivalent is over there and "the Capitalists"

but at least no major action today...so that's one positive

Not really a Russian only thing. People are willing to shift their views wildly to fit with their 'in' group. I'm sure if you told those people waving the Russia flag around that they'd be doing that 5 years ago - they'd have looked at you like you were crazy.

[SutterBrother]

Good Guardian article on this topic:
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ory-day-russia

Putin has won four presidential elections, but a fifth is looming in 2024. Covid took a heavy toll in Russia and the economy has slumped, so Putin’s options are few. In his mind, his best way to hold on to power is a repeat of the great victory. A symbolic march-past on 9 May would not be enough; they’d need to fill the image with blood.

And so they tried to “do it again”, orchestrating Europe’s biggest tragedy since 1945. The war is the world’s first to have been directly invented by TV. It also feels like the moment when the Soviet Union truly fell apart, because Russia, as heir to that empire, cannot come through this crisis with all those Soviet myths about victory still intact. We shouldn’t be surprised that most Russians have bought into this and are indifferent to the military crimes being committed in Ukraine. It’s not just that they don’t get the full picture because of the obliteration of journalism and social media. It’s that if you stop believing the propaganda, then you no longer can believe in a Russia of traditional values, a victory-day hero nation. All that is left is a wild person wandering through the ruins of a militarised kleptocracy, carrying a nuclear suitcase in his hand. And who wants to believe in that?

Who are we, and how did we let this happen? It’s scary to answer this question. Russians will hold on to their myths until the very last. In the meantime, they have their military parade, their victory day swoon, the opiate of the masses.

[Bagor]

Russia’s ambassador to Poland has been pelted with red paint thrown at him by people protesting against the war in Ukraine as he went to lay flowers at the Soviet military cemetery in Warsaw on the anniversary of the allied victory over Nazi Germany in 1945.

Video footage released by Russian news agencies showed Sergey Andreev and several other men with paint on their clothes and faces surrounded by a crowd, some holding Ukrainian flags. In other videos of the incident circulating online, anti-war activists can be heard chanting “fascists” and “murderers”.

Andreev told the Russian news agency Tass that he and his team had not been seriously hurt in the incident. The protesters prevented the ambassador from laying flowers at the cemetery and Polish police escorted him away.
Russia’s foreign ministry responded to the incident by demanding Warsaw organise a new wreath-laying ceremony immediately and saying Poland should “ensure complete protection against any provocations”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-day-gathering

https://twitter.com/user/status/1523608789559222273

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

I hope you're right, but after the last 10-15 years or so, I don't see people as just naïve dupes anymore...

there's large groups of the population that willingly, actively, seek to drink the koolaid

Things that would have seemed preposterous 10-15 years ago, are being talked about, or have happened, without much outcry...and if there is, its become so partisan, it not the acct anymore, only who it is coming from. That's in countries with Freedom of the Press...for countries without that, I would assume that the brainwashing is more pervasive.

The Russians will simply blame whatever the BLM equivalent is over there and "the Capitalists"

but at least no major action today...so that's one positive

From what I have seen, most Russians would be far more angry if they realize they are losing, then that they are raping and killing civilians.

I've seen several videos from prominent russian Youtubers and channels like 1420 and the mentality is just different.

Appealing on the humanitarian side is a very western left mentality, that just doesn't work in a country which is ultra nationalist.

Appealing to Russians that civilians are getting killed doesn't work. Doing things like blowing up the Crimea bridge, bombing Belgorod, shipping dead bodies and showing just how dire the situation for the Russian military really have a much bigger impact. The Moskva sinking means it will never make a Victory Day appearance again. The helicopter attack on Belgorod caused panic and generated questions.

This is why Russia can only be beaten militarily. They need to be humiliated where russians in Moscow and St Petersberg are actively questioning everything.

It's believed one of the reasons why the air show in Moscow was cancelled was due to there being a very real threat of planes being shot down from the sky during the parade. That type of live shock cannot be hidden.

I think the message "Russia is losing the war and has 25K soldiers already killed, Putin is a loser" would have a deeper impact then the one was was used on the hack.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

Good Guardian article on this topic:
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ory-day-russia

I'm not buying it at all. Putin did not need this war to win 2024 elections. He could have easily rigged those elections. Also, this war was unpopular from the start, even when most thought it's going to be a quick win. While the real reasons for the war remain somewhat obscure, the plan was never to increase popularity. You can't gain popularity in Russia by bombing Kyiv.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-day-gathering

https://twitter.com/user/status/1523608789559222273

I get that people hate all things Russian now, but it was Russians who stopped holocaust in Poland and as Russian Jew I surely appreciate it. And the point of the ceremony was to celebrate the defeat of Hitler.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I get that people hate all things Russian now, but it was Russians who stopped holocaust in Poland and as Russian Jew I surely appreciate it.

They also collaborated with Hitler to partition Poland, massacred people along the way, and occupied the entire country after WW2.

The May 9th celebrations in Russia are the height of hypocrisy. They were ethnically cleansing their empire and annexing sovereign countries just like the Nazis were. It only became a problem for them after Hitler turned on them.

Russia earned the role of adversary in Poland.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I get that people hate all things Russian now, but it was Russians who stopped holocaust in Poland and as Russian Jew I surely appreciate it. And the point of the ceremony was to celebrate the defeat of Hitler.

I certainly sympathize, and won't tell you how to feel. I am not Jewish and can't relate to the unconscionable suffering.

But Russia's role was certainly white-washed in the post war period. Germany had such an advanced military that it took the entire United Nations to defeat them. It was ultimately America's industrial might that was their downfall.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

They also collaborated with Hitler to partition Poland, massacred people along the way, and occupied the entire country after WW2.

The May 9th celebrations in Russia are the height of hypocrisy. They were ethnically cleansing their empire and annexing sovereign countries just like the Nazis were. It only became a problem for them after Hitler turned on them...

So did every other European country. As horrible as Stalin's regime was for the USSR, it was the USSR soldiers who stopped Hitler and crashed Nazi Germany at an enormous human cost of 20M people, while UK was waiting as long as it could to get going and France just surrendering. What Putin is doing NOW is terrible and Russia will be paying the heavy price for its actions eventually, but this should not be used to re-write the history.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Not really a Russian only thing. People are willing to shift their views wildly to fit with their 'in' group. I'm sure if you told those people waving the Russia flag around that they'd be doing that 5 years ago - they'd have looked at you like you were crazy.

Not a Russian thing at all - though I believe that their access to objective media has made them probably more entrenched in their views.

My comment was meant in general terms on how people respond to things contrary to their belief system...the more 'fanatical' you are, the less likely and more willing to believe lies over facts...

this is a comment that applies universally, across nations and from politics, to religion to games and sports and everything in between.

Originally Posted by Firebot

From what I have seen, most Russians would be far more angry if they realize they are losing, then that they are raping and killing civilians.

I've seen several videos from prominent russian Youtubers and channels like 1420 and the mentality is just different.

Appealing on the humanitarian side is a very western left mentality, that just doesn't work in a country which is ultra nationalist.

Appealing to Russians that civilians are getting killed doesn't work. Doing things like blowing up the Crimea bridge, bombing Belgorod, shipping dead bodies and showing just how dire the situation for the Russian military really have a much bigger impact. The Moskva sinking means it will never make a Victory Day appearance again. The helicopter attack on Belgorod caused panic and generated questions.

This is why Russia can only be beaten militarily. They need to be humiliated where russians in Moscow and St Petersberg are actively questioning everything.

It's believed one of the reasons why the air show in Moscow was cancelled was due to there being a very real threat of planes being shot down from the sky during the parade. That type of live shock cannot be hidden.

I think the message "Russia is losing the war and has 25K soldiers already killed, Putin is a loser" would have a deeper impact then the one was was used on the hack.

i would agree that it does take a splash of cold water, or facts, for many to see the truth...

however, if you marched some "Z" supporters through the streets of Mariupol to show them the destructive and devastation, a good percentage, like 30%, would not believe it... the would say the West or Ukraine did it, and everyone is a crisis actor.

they live in a world where 2+2=5...

I don't think NA is that far behind to be honest, but that's for another thread...

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I get that people hate all things Russian now, but it was Russians who stopped holocaust in Poland and as Russian Jew I surely appreciate it. And the point of the ceremony was to celebrate the defeat of Hitler.

It doesn't matter what the reason for any Russian official doing anything in a Nato country is right now. This should happen to all of them unless they are there to decry what is happening in Ukraine. They need to be shamed and humiliated until this ends.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I get that people hate all things Russian now, but it was Russians who stopped holocaust in Poland and as Russian Jew I surely appreciate it. And the point of the ceremony was to celebrate the defeat of Hitler.

Dont think thats the point, Pointy.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

They also collaborated with Hitler to partition Poland, massacred people along the way, and occupied the entire country after WW2.

The May 9th celebrations in Russia are the height of hypocrisy. They were ethnically cleansing their empire and annexing sovereign countries just like the Nazis were. It only became a problem for them after Hitler turned on them.

Russia earned the role of adversary in Poland.

That's nothing compared to the destruction of Warsaw by Nazis and Warsaw ghetto

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_Warsaw

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto


While Russia and actually Kyiv have no shortage of wars with Poland throughout history, it does not even come close

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...against_Russia

Both Russia and Poland did occupy each other at certain points in history

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_Troubles

Yet what Hitler did to Poland is arguably unparalleled in the whole history of mankind.

[afc wimbledon]

It's ironic but if you'd taken a poll of which country was most likely to gas 6 million Jews right up until 1945 or so when we learnt about the Holocaust Russia and France would likely have been the top choices not Germany.

No country has any claim to clean hands frankly except maybe Denmark (the story of how Denmark almost as a country saved it's Jewish population from the Nazi's is incredible), Churchill made the decision to ship rice out of the Punjab in 1943 when they were in the middle of a famine to feed the troops , that choice killed 2 to 3 million by starvation, Russia under Stalin did almost exactly the same thing to Ukraine in the '30's, again killing millions.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Firebot

It's believed one of the reasons why the air show in Moscow was cancelled was due to there being a very real threat of planes being shot down from the sky during the parade. That type of live shock cannot be hidden.

This is most likely to be correct. Moscow did have a big dark cloud yesterday, but it only closed half of the sky, there was only a minor rain and no wind. Also, air shows were cancelled in several other cities. So Ukranian saboteurs had to resort to putting the highest ferris wheel in Moscow area on fire (or should I say it mysteriously went on fire for unknown reasons).