Multiculturalism Utterly Failed - German Chancellor

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Things like spitting and littering should be against the law. Like jaywalking. In other countries you can jaywalk anywhere but here you can get a ticket.

Noise and gestures not so much, some people just have loud voices.

Come on, kids - the constant horking sound is just one of the little charms of Beijing. Oh, POM, you are nuts... are you by any chance at the Queen's University Women's Centre?

[mykalberta]

Do state troopers, national guard, or FBI wear turbans? I dont have anything against the particular headware in general but its a great case study to show the problems that exist.

What people choose to do in their private time is their own choice, whether they want to continue their culture is their choice, so long as their culture doesnt interfere with the majority than there is no problem.

The problem comes with the combination of mutilculturalism, democracy, and a legal system that favors the minority over the majority.

Also, this has been coming for a long time, its incorrect to blame the downturn in the economy. France/Sarkozy was fighting this long before the 2008 shatstorm.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

a legal system that favors the minority over the majority.

One day soon, you could be part of a minority.

[Ford Prefect]

I think the problem with multi-culturalism is people.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

POM, you seem to suggest that Canadian culture condones rape (or is, at a minimum, tolerant of it). Can you expound on that? Have I misunderstood your position?

Sorry, just curious about your reasoning on this specific point.

I don't think Canadian culture does enough to deal with the problem of rape. I'm not talking about state legislation; I'm talking about what actually happens. That's not the same as saying that Canadian culture condones rape in the sense that it views it as a positive, no.

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by Regorium

I think the fact that there are people out there willing to do the same service for less SHOULD drive wages down, even if it is by sacrificing their own quality of life.

That is what I would disagree with.

Presumably people immigrate to western countries to make a better life for themselves and provide a better future for their children, right ?

Just because people are forced by finances to work for low wages, doesn't make it right.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by Day Tripper

What? This is theoretically impossible. If the cases aren't reported, then where do the numbers come from?

Unless anonymous survey figures aren't counted as "reported"...

Yes, it's from a Statscan survey. As is the 1% figure I mentioned.

Really, since we're trusting statscan on the official number of reported rapes, all we have to do is trust them on this and the numbers look vastly different. But there's plenty of other surveys that have found similar numbers. I mean, there have been Statscan surveys which found that one half of Canadian women have suffered some form of sexual abuse.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Regorium

This is just simple economics though. I still haven't completely thought through it myself as to whether this is an issue with the North American sense of entitlement (If I know how to turn a wrench I should get 75k salary!) or an issue with globalization/immigrants/world economics.

I think the fact that there are people out there willing to do the same service for less SHOULD drive wages down, even if it is by sacrificing their own quality of life. If companies can hire an engineer for 30k that can produce as much as I can, perhaps I'm setting my rate too high. However, I also freely admit I feel entitled to at least the APEGGA rate, so I would also be unimpressed when this wage drop actually occurs on a large scale in engineering like it already has in manufacturing/services.

If you legislate against immigrants taking jobs, then companies will find ways around it, like outsourcing. So really there's no winning here as long as the market force is forcing wages down.

I agree with you regarding the drain on the social system though. Really I don't see a solution to it at this point. Immigrants feel entitled just as much in this regard and would be quite the shock if this net was removed.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but there is another side as well, at least in this part of the world and in many US states. Illegal immigrants, and there are a LOT of them.

Wages being driven by work force is one thing, but wages being driven by a work force that shouldnt be a part of that work force is another. It is a really big problem in some parts of the business world. I see it all the time.

I have friends down here who have essentially been forced to hire illegals in order to compete with others doing the same. They hate it, but it's their livlihoods on the line....and the days of doing so providing an advantage to the bottom line are gone. Now its all about survival to maintain enough to earn a living.

Its a mess for sure though.

[tripin_billie]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but there is another side as well, at least in this part of the world and in many US states. Illegal immigrants, and there are a LOT of them.

Wages being driven by work force is one thing, but wages being driven by a work force that shouldnt be a part of that work force is another. It is a really big problem in some parts of the business world. I see it all the time.

I have friends down here who have essentially been forced to hire illegals in order to compete with others doing the same. They hate it, but it's their livlihoods on the line....and the days of doing so providing an advantage to the bottom line are gone. Now its all about survival to maintain enough to earn a living.

Its a mess for sure though.

I don't blame the workforce for the wage issue, I blame Americans' (and Canadians fall into the same boat) fetish for low prices. Becuase we want dollar menus at McDonalds, and cheap toys, cheap electronics, etc., manufacturers and farm industry has to cut its bottom line. Manufacturing took care of this by outsourcing, farming took care of it by hiring undocumented labour.

Desire for low prices leads to companies needing to cut back costs, and thus being unwilling or unable to pay minimum wages. This leads to the use of undocumented aliens because their tenuous status leads to little to no bargaining position, and thus, lower than minimum wages.

Basically, these workers didn't take American jobs, American companies simply refused to pay Americans a minimum wage to perform these jobs.

So, blame is spread around. Yes, the undocumented aliens entered illegaly, but they wouldn't come to the USA if they couldn't get work. They get work because the demand for low prices pushes companies run the risk of being caught employing undocumented aliens.

I really think a solution is to make the punishment for a company caught knowingly hiring undocumented workers to be catastrophically high, thus making the risk equation unfavorable to use them.

But along with that, companies will need to raise prices, or go out of business. Because if a company is only making a profit because they are using less-than-minimum-wage employees, than they are cheating, and would not be making that profit, if behaving legally.

And this will in the end mean a noticeable cost increase on many goods. But the realization must be made that the prices currently are artificially low, and that if you want to stamp out illegal immigration, there are going to be economic costs.

So, the question is, do Americans want to stop illegal immigration, in order to proserve a certain set of jobs for Americans, bad enough to pay the cost?

[Traditional_Ale]

The thing with the USA though, is that you're an American first and a whereveryoucamefrom second. In Canada it's the other way round, which is where I have a problem.

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

Please, if you're going to refute my thesis, do so by actually refuting the claims which form the basis of my argument, not with baseless and insubstantial rhetoric. Same goes for the crowd thanking your post.

The irony here is hilarious.

You have been challenged several times to provide proof of your baseless claims and are still unable to do so because they don't exist. When shown the ACTUAL number of rapists is around 0.2% of the population, you respond with "nobody ever reports rapes, but trust me, it's super bad". Even if we buy your joke stat that only 6% of rapes are reported, that still only adds up to maybe 2 or 3% of men commit rapes.

So, how about you explain to us with facts how that number is 66% of the population as you posted? Oh, and if you tell us to trust you because you know....I don't believe you and neither do the other 11 million rapists in this country.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by psicodude

The irony here is hilarious.

You have been challenged several times to provide proof of your baseless claims and are still unable to do so because they don't exist. When shown the ACTUAL number of rapists is around 0.2% of the population, you respond with "nobody ever reports rapes, but trust me, it's super bad". Even if we buy your joke stat that only 6% of rapes are reported, that still only adds up to maybe 2 or 3% of men commit rapes.

So, how about you explain to us with facts how that number is 66% of the population as you posted? Oh, and if you tell us to trust you because you know....I don't believe you and neither do the other 11 million rapists in this country.

You are such a joke. Every stat I've mentioned in this thread is from Statscan surveys [look them up], which is also where the initial joke of a stat comes from. Selective belief of the same freaking source? Really?

and you're not even reading my posts, because I never stated anything like 66% of the population are rapists. I said that you're looking at potential rapists. I'll admit that I was being somewhat silly in exaggerating to that extent, but the fundamental points I've made are still sound.

And once again, the stats I quoted, of 69% of rapes being by acquaintances, of which only 1% are reported, of only 6% of rapes being reported, of half of Canadian women having suffered a sexual crime, etc. are FROM STATSCAN SURVEYS. These stats are not baseless, and come from the same source as the initial stat that was used against me.

I'd also like to point out that everyone freaking out and trying to minimize the problem just proves my initial thesis: that people in this country are not willing to really confront cultural misogyny because they like to convince themselves that it's not such a big deal. It is.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

You are such a joke. Every stat I've mentioned in this thread is from Statscan surveys [look them up], which is also where the initial joke of a stat comes from. Selective belief of the same freaking source? Really?

and you're not even reading my posts, because I never stated anything like 66% of the population are rapists. I said that you're looking at potential rapists. I'll admit that I was being somewhat silly in exaggerating to that extent, but the fundamental points I've made are still sound.

And once again, the stats I quoted, of 69% of rapes being by acquaintances, of which only 1% are reported, of only 6% of rapes being reported, of half of Canadian women having suffered a sexual crime, etc. are FROM STATSCAN SURVEYS. These stats are not baseless, and come from the same source as the initial stat that was used against me.

I'd also like to point out that everyone freaking out and trying to minimize the problem just proves my initial thesis: that people in this country are not willing to really confront cultural misogyny because they like to convince themselves that it's not such a big deal. It is.

Given that me felching my wife (without asking first) is technically a sexual crime perpetrated by an acquaintance, I will confidently dismiss these alleged statistics as BS. They are clearly designed to perpetuate a particular world view (see comment re Queen's University above) and generate attendant funding for certain pet causes...

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

They are clearly designed to perpetuate a particular world view (see comment re Queen's University above) and generate attendant funding for certain pet causes...

Typically dismissive anti-feminist nonsense.

And no, I'm not at the Queen's women's centre. But considering the horror stories resulting from that campus' 'fun' party culture, it's a good thing if they have a particularly hardline feminist group.

[DemolitionCat]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

I'd also like to point out that everyone freaking out and trying to minimize the problem just proves my initial thesis: that people in this country are not willing to really confront cultural misogyny because they like to convince themselves that it's not such a big deal. It is.

Maybe they're too busy with all the raping. At least no one is trivializing honor killings or stoning, either.

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by DemolitionCat

Maybe they're too busy with all the raping. At least no one is trivializing honor killings or stoning, either.

no, they're just using stoning [non-existent in Canada's Muslim population] and honour killings [wildly, wildly rare in Canada's Muslim population] to make themselves feel better about their own culture's gender issues.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

Typically dismissive anti-feminist nonsense.

And no, I'm not at the Queen's women's centre. But considering the horror stories resulting from that campus' 'fun' party culture, it's a good thing if they have a particularly hardline feminist group.

Ah, this brings back fond memories of the politically corrected rabid welcoming environment so prevalent on many of our campuses. Yes, men are evil - we are all rapists...

[DemolitionCat]

Originally Posted by PyramidsofMars

no, they're just using stoning [non-existent in Canada's Muslim population] and honour killings [wildly, wildly rare in Canada's Muslim population] to make themselves feel better about their own culture's gender issues.

Whew, talk about gender issues, indeed

[PyramidsofMars]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Ah, this brings back fond memories of the politically corrected rabid welcoming environment so prevalent on many of our campuses. Yes, men are evil - we are all rapists...

You're a lawyer. Surely you know that deliberately misrepresenting an opponent's viewpoint is no way to approach a discussion.

[Rubicant]

I have no problem with immigration, but I do echo what Hemi-Cuda said in like post 2 (before all the rape talk).

What I do have a problem with is 'Canadians of convenience'.

When we had to evacuate thousands of "Canadians" from Lebanon, where 50000 Lebanese-Canadians live permanently, at a cost of 85 million, I wasn't amused.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/2006...on_tab_060919/