The big fat Greek bailout

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

From the original post in this thread, back in 2010

BERLIN (AFP) – The European Union could provide debt-ridden Greece with up to 25 billion euros (34 billion dollars) in aid, Monday's edition of the German magazine Der Spiegel says, citing suggestions from Germany's finance ministry

That bailout package has now ballooned to $326 billion.

Greece is about to default on their loan repayments. Tsipras and his lefty government are saying the restrictions imposed on them are "not fair". He said the EU's demands to slash the gold plated pensions and increase taxes were "appalling". Sounds like the captain is going to go down with the ship; the EU has had enough.

[Slava]

The part that is the most egregious though is the government telling people that their money is safe and secure in the banks. Its clearly not the case. Giving them the idea that everything is copacetic in order to sway them to vote the way you need them to in five days is just wrong.

[CaptainCrunch]

At some point governments need to recognize that line where they can't borrow their way out of trouble, and that they have to apply some common sense to their spending.

The Greek's elected a government because they promised to keep the spending status quo alive with no plan except "Dude, the check is totally in the mail" when dealing with their debtors.

We know what the referendum results are going to be, but if the Greeks vote in favor of basically leaving he Euro, we're going to have to define a new term around 4th world countries.

Greek is going to collapse, and nobody is going to stop it now, its now worth it for the Eurozone to carry around a deadbeat cousin anymore.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

We know what the referendum results are going to be, but if the Greeks vote in favor of basically leaving he Euro, we're going to have to define a new term around 4th world countries.

Greek is going to collapse, and nobody is going to stop it now, its now worth it for the Eurozone to carry around a deadbeat cousin anymore.

I've been following it for quite some time but they've been on the verge for many, many years. The Euro seems to drag it out (maybe hoping the rest of the PIIGS - Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Spain get in better shape in the meantime).

But this is Greece after all. The party in current power were just recently elected on the basis of ending the financial restraint that the Euro is trying impose in order to fix their finances. But the majority of Greeks still demand to stay in the Euro. They (have always) wanted it both ways.

[polak]

Zero sympathy.

I don't know how a populace could be so brain dead.

[CaptainCrunch]

Makes me wonder, you always see the rise of extreme governments after economic turmoil.

This current Greek Government is going to fall. They hold a very thin minority, and throwing this out to a referendum was a bad idea.

If this country does completely collapse which is looking likely, it doesn't take much for a nationalist government with a strong Greece first message to swoop in and take power, and The Greek's already have that party with the Golden Dawn.

[Johnny199r]

No one pays their income taxes, everyone expects generous pensions at 50 years old from the government. What did Greeks think would eventually happen to their country?

[polak]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

No one pays their income taxes, everyone expects generous pensions at 50 years old from the government. What did Greeks think would eventually happen to their country?

Give them a break. It's "too hot" to think.

Their brains are on permanent siestas.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by polak

They're brains are on permanent siestas.

You sound Greek.

[Slava]

Here is an old, fairly long, but really interesting article on Greece and their economic situation. It was written in 2010, but not a lot appears to have changed at this point.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2010/...g-bonds-201010

[nik-]

I'm sure Tsipras has all his money safely tucked away somewhere else and since he was elected basically on a mandate to burn this down, that's exactly what he'll do.

What does he care.

[karl262]

Wow. The Greek national debt is close to 200% the GDP.

If the scenario was dumbed down to a coles notes version, would that be like someone making $100,000 per year trying to pay off a $200,000 line of credit? If so, it almost seems like bankruptcy might be the best medicine for the country. Sure, the golden pensions and culture of tax aversion/lack of tax enforcement will be gone, but that was probably going to happen anyways.

The EU should have to face the music as well. Letting Greece into the union was like giving an 18 year old kid a platinum amex with no spending limit. Not a good idea ever.

[polak]

Originally Posted by karl262

Sure, the golden pensions and culture of tax aversion/lack of tax enforcement will be gone, but that was probably going to happen anyways.

They will riot over this too. It's hilarious.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm sure Tsipras has all his money safely tucked away somewhere else and since he was elected basically on a mandate to burn this down, that's exactly what he'll do.

What does he care.

That's probably not far off from the truth. I had an ex-coworker a year ago saying that when this first scare happened one of his family was a finance minister of some type in the Greek government and they passed inside info to withdraw their money quickly as there was a scare about to come up. I assume the country just works like that to begin with as it seems nobody pays taxes there. That's not a culture you can easily change. Entitlement at its finest.

[FlamesAddiction]

I spent 3 weeks in Greece and while no doubt most people are honest and hard working, it was the one place that I have ever travelled where I felt like people were constantly trying to rip me off. They are so nice when they think you have a lot of money but do a complete 180 when they find out you don't. I also had one of the people I rented from steal meds from my luggage.

I chalk it up to the fact that the people are starting to get desperate. They are getting really poor, but everywhere you go, there are signs of tycoonism.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I spent 3 weeks in Greece and while no doubt most people are honest and hard working, it was the one place that I have ever travelled where I felt like people were constantly trying to rip me off.

That article Slava linked is worth a read. This is not the work of a minority of people. This is a wholesale wave of entitlement and socialism gone mad.

The term "austerity" isn't really in the realm of reality for Greece. They complain like it's such hardship but really, the "hardship" would be the fattest union utopia you can imagine in the rest of the world. They're being asked to stop giving money to pedophiles, raise up their retirement ages from the lowest in all of Europe, and actually starting paying some taxes and their own mortgage.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Nothing like a crowd funded bailout....

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/g...ut-fund#/story

[CaptainCrunch]

A) people are idiots, the fact that they've raised $178,000 euro's is just stupid. Greece is the deadbeat brother that is going to end up destroying your family and devaluing your house.

1.6 billion is a loan repayment basically there are lots more of those, is this moron going to keep raising money.

I watched CNN last night and they were interviewing Greeks on the streets and they were all whining about it and demanding that their government not pay back a cent because its mean of the Eurozone to demand repayment on money.

Frankly I believe they'll vote no, even after the Eurozone tabled another pretty generous offer last night in terms of leaving the pensions and salaries for government workers alone (so stupid). At that point, they are going to be kicked out, their govenment is going to have no choice but to declare bankruptcy and start over.

Then the rest of the world should go in, take over Greece, get out the bulldozers and build a massive amusement park filled with swarthy greek ladies.

Greece is the architect of their own doom, now its time to let the whole damn thing blow up.

[Ducay]

As much I think the Greek people are to blame, and remain a bunch of morons when it comes to their finances and national policies, there is so much of a knock-on effect to just "let them deal with it". It would be nice to see them wise up and do what it takes to remain bailed out and in the eurozone, but that will never happen when the people riot against any change that needs to happen.

[Cappy]

Lets face it, governments are weak, spineless, opportunists with zero forethought into the future. Political parties seek election at all costs and will not make the tough choices unless the people are willing to sacrifice. It's up to the people to realize that things need to change and vote for that change, othwerwise governments will continue to pass the buck or blame some minority for all the problems (rich immigrants, poor immigrants, welfare recipients, elderly, corporations, the rich, etc).

I see alot of parallels to the recent Alberta election (obviously both are completely different). The parties knew that reliance on oil revenues needs to end and paid it lip service. Every party knew taxes would need to increase, and we voted in the party that offers democratic socialism hoping for the Nordic-model, only to realize that the nordic model has everyone pitching in (high income taxes, fairly low corporate taxes) so we end up with a tax on the rich and on corporations. While they were lambasted for the comment, I think Prentice was right in saying we all needed to look into the mirror (even the PCs).

The Greeks need to do the same, look in the mirror. Yeah some political parties put you in this mess but you voted those parties in and now need to face the consequences of poor choices.