Was Paul Hinman campaigning outside a polling station today?

[CrusaderPi]

The best part of this is we might get some elated drunken posting tonight from First Lady and Firefly.

[St Loomis]

Seriously though, which party right now has proven itself to be competent? None that I am aware of. The PCs under Stelmach have been irresponsible. The Liberals have been unable to reach a lot of Albertans. The WAR has not done anything yet (so haven't been able to show competence or lack thereof). Then there is the NDP, they just have proven they are competent at not getting people to vote for them.

Man, when did I become so cynical?

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

This is the reason the Liberals will never hold a majority in this province

Pierre Trudeau.

If they want real change in Alberta they would rebrand something a little less Toronto leftist, but not Tory right and they would win the cities firstly causing a PC minority, eventually being able to get a few Cochrane/Airdrie type ridings to form a slim majority.

Very similar to what the Sask Party did by dropping the PC brand which had been tainted. Its sometimes easier to rebrand than to fix your original brand.

That's a really good solution, though I also disagree that 'everything' can be blamed on Trudeau.

The Liberals need to disband and rebrand as a genuine fiscally conservative/socially moderate party provincially if they want to have any success here in the next 20 years.

Though I also agree that internally they're a mess... they need their stronger members to come forward, quit their high-paying downtown jobs, and devote their lives to politics. There's a lot of impressive members they have, but none of the ones making it in the private sector have been (stupid?) bold enough to do anything. And I don't blame them.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Pierre Trudeau is not the reason why the Liberals were never judged to be a viable governing party for the 60 years previous to the NEP.

You really underestimate the incompetence of the provincial party.

When the majority of Albertans lived in farms and towns like Brooks (just as an example) that case would hold true.

Alberta is now run by the cities, in that environment a rebranded Liberal party could easily force a minority. The Tories ignore the cities and pay them menial lip service as they use tax revenue from the cities to fund rural pet projects.

Its sickening. The WRC might be able to do it if they were to shift slightly left of the PC, but a tax crazy Danielle Smith isnt going to do that. She will preech less taxes and try to turn Alberta into Florida. We dont want that - we also dont want downtown Robson street - we want a comprimise - a rebranded Liberal party with no ties to the old Liberal party could do that - or if you want to be crazy a possible merger of the Liberal party and WRC - although mergers rarely work.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Delgar

That's a really good solution, though I also disagree that 'everything' can be blamed on Trudeau.

The Liberals need to disband and rebrand as a genuine fiscally conservative/socially moderate party provincially if they want to have any success here in the next 20 years.

Though I also agree that internally they're a mess... they need their stronger members to come forward, quit their high-paying downtown jobs, and devote their lives to politics. There's a lot of impressive members they have, but none of the ones making it in the private sector have been (stupid?) bold enough to do anything. And I don't blame them.

I would vote for a rebranded liberal party, slightly left of the PC but not crazy Toronto or Vancouver left. I will never vote for the Liberals because of PET - his arrogance and upper canada superiority complex still and will always sour that party from coast to coast.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Well, I should probably just come out and say this... if First Lady comes around, I should eat a sizable helping of crow, since I was very skeptical of Hinman's chances in this by-election, and very critical of the poll she posted showing a three-party race.

In fact, the person I thought would win finished a distant third. No more political oddsmaking for me, I guess.

[Resolute 14]

A rebranded Liberal party with a competent leader certainly could make inroads. That is, of course, a considerably different argument than "the Liberals lose because of Trudeau".

However, since the Liberals just aren't going to change much, Alberta's best hope might be to have the WRA put a scare into Stelmach in the next general election. The WRA winning tonight is freaking HUGE, because outside of a couple ridings, this party was poorly supported in the two big cities last time out. It is a party that can steal some rural votes already, and if they look to be stealing urban support, Stelmach might just start crapping his pants. Because regardless of what the Liberals do, if the WRA can create a split in the cities, a lot of those ridings might well go red in the next election.

Of course, a lot can happen in the next three years or so. Hopefully this result, which is nothing short of embarrassing for the PCs, will spur some positive change from Farmer Ed's caucus.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I would vote for a rebranded liberal party, slightly left of the PC but not crazy Toronto or Vancouver left. I will never vote for the Liberals because of PET - his arrogance and upper canada superiority complex still and will always sour that party from coast to coast.

Off topic - So you want a party to the left of the PC's but you were a Guiliani supporter in the Republican race? Colour me confused!

[Resolute 14]

Oh, and FireFly may or may not be on at some point tonight, but I did get a text message from her: "Woot!"

[bcb]

Well, I figure Hinman will be defeated next general election, just like the Liberal was in Calgary Elbow.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Off topic - So you want a party to the left of the PC's but you were a Guiliani supporter in the Republican race? Colour me confused!

It's worse than that. He won't vote for the Alberta Liberals because of a federal politician who is not from this province, has never been affiliated with the Alberta Liberals, who retired from politics in 1984, and has been dead for nine years.

Go figure.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Off topic - So you want a party to the left of the PC's but you were a Guiliani supporter in the Republican race? Colour me confused!

Do you think Gulianni - the former mayor of New York was right of centre on the Republican side?

His left of centre stance is why I still think he had the best chance to win, along with the fact he would have forced campaign spending in NY and Cali - the 2 most expensive markets there by diverting funds away from battlegrounds states. When one party completely dwarfs the other party in financing you have to find a way to neutralize that. He ran a risky and in hind sight poor campaign but I still think it was his best shot. He was running up against the Pat Buchannan Rush Limbaugh Republicans that will kill the party if they arent silenced - the problem is they bring in so much money that its difficult for a soft leadership base to get rid of them.

But that is over - who cares about US politics (at least for another 3-8 years).

Also, Iowa wasnt the only one who was skeptical about Henman's chances. I thought his chances were better when I learned of the PC candidate though - I guess whoever was the head of that riding assoication didnt take politics 101 or was blind to the fact that the candidate in their riding was a complete waste.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

It's worse than that. He won't vote for the Alberta Liberals because of a federal politician who is not from this province, has never been affiliated with the Alberta Liberals, who retired from politics in 1984, and has been dead for nine years.

Go figure.

While I do scoff at the suggestion that Trudeau is completely the reason the Liberals are unelectable (and have been for 90 years), there is merit to the argument. Trudeau poisoned the word "Liberal" in this province, and that is a black mark on the Alberta party that will last until my parents' generation passes on.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

It's worse than that. He won't vote for the Alberta Liberals because of a federal politician who is not from this province, has never been affiliated with the Alberta Liberals, who retired from politics in 1984, and has been dead for nine years.

Go figure.

I wont vote for the Alberta Liberals because the central Canada Liberal stench would infest that party if it came anywhere close to power. It would be a puppet to the two towers of Montreal and Toronto (of which still look upon PET as some sort of Canadian saviour).

Slowly siphening more Alberta resource revenues through modified transfer schemes with the promise of joke Federal appointments if the MLA's went along with it in a way to buy votes in central Canada.

At least with Stelmach you know he is thinking Alberta first, Canada second (as any province should of their respective province). The NEP still exists, just under a more politically correct name except multiple provinces get screwed to pay for Bloc MP's instead of just Alberta.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Do you think Gulianni - the former mayor of New York was right of centre on the Republican side?

His left of centre stance is why I still think he had the best chance to win, along with the fact he would have forced campaign spending in NY and Cali - the 2 most expensive markets there by diverting funds away from battlegrounds states.

I stand corrected. I remember now he was actually considered more left than all the other republican candidates, a memory partially prompted by your post and then I followed up with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic..._Rudy_Giuliani

I just remembered him in terms of his hard line security stance.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

I wont vote for the Alberta Liberals because the central Canada Liberal stench would infest that party if it came anywhere close to power. It would be a puppet to the two towers of Montreal and Toronto (of which still look upon PET as some sort of Canadian saviour).

OK. I guess my point is this: it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for me to say that I would never vote for the provincial Tories because of Brian Mulroney.

By any measure that matters, Trudeau does not influence the Alberta Liberals at all. However, Resolute is right that the word Liberal is one that has a tough time gaining traction in Alberta politics.

On the other hand, I'm not really willing to let the actual party off the hook for that. For years, they've had trouble framing an actual message of opposition against the government (initially because they were so ideologically close to them, though I may be one of only a few people around here old enough to remember that). As a result, it's been many years since they really looked poised to take the reins of government (if indeed they have since Decore) and they do have an annoying tendency to elect the wrong guy as leader, something I can attest to from years of involvement with the party a long time ago.

The choice of Grant Mitchell, easily the worst candidate in a four-way race back in the 90s is a perfect example. It pretty much got worse from there.

So do they need to rebrand? I guess I think they need to re-message--and build a message that can resonate with a population that is (in my view) fiscally cautious but not as a rule socially conservative. Hopefully they can figure it out, but I have learned over the years to temper my optimism.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Slava

Spoken like someone who hasn't worked on a campaign? It's the epitome of douchy and is absolutely campaigning. Introducing yourself to voters and telling them your name is what a campaign is.

Every single party had people AT polling stations greeting people today at some point. In fact, the Liberals? have an OFFICE attached to a polling station... I think it was the liberals anyway. But it's okay because they say the community centre isn't a part of the school it's attached to, right?

Legally they have 100 feet. And it's not douchy to use it, it's SMART.

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

The best part of this is we might get some elated drunken posting tonight from First Lady and Firefly.

Yes indeedy. I think I've fixed all my spelling mistakes, but we'll see more clearly in the AM.



WOOT! I'd just like to say to all the nay-sayers... We're too rural, what? Perhaps it's that we have SMART fiscal policy. When it boils down to "what do you want from your government?" the answer is usually "SMART fiscal policy" or something related. (Better health, better education all fall under that, no?)

I'd just like to say, that's one. Join the movement, join the party, vote for a leader and vote for which direction you'd like to see our party head. Our fiscal policies are sound. Picking a new leader is amost more important than this by-election. Help us make the right choice.

[Bleeding Red]

I learned a few things while running for city council in my district a few years ago.

Standing outside a polling station on election day and campaigning (introducing yourself, wearing party colours, handing out flyers all count) is low class and most voters don't appreciate it.

A candidate being in the polling station and handing out flyers contravenes the elections act - This is the Alberta Elections Act
" No election advertising at polling place
135(1) Subject to subsection (2), no person may
(a) display inside or on the outside of, or
(b) distribute within,
a building used for a polling place at an advance poll or on polling day any election circular, card, poster, bill or other paper except those posted by the deputy returning officer or other election officials as required by this Act." - http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?pag...=9780779733903


There is a section on voter conduct in a polling station - basically only election workers and scrutineers can spend more than a few minutes in the polling station. Voters can stand in line for as long as it takes, but you can't go poll to poll talking to others in line.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Every single party had people AT polling stations greeting people today at some point. In fact, the Liberals? have an OFFICE attached to a polling station... I think it was the liberals anyway. But it's okay because they say the community centre isn't a part of the school it's attached to, right?

Legally they have 100 feet. And it's not douchy to use it, it's SMART.



Yes indeedy. I think I've fixed all my spelling mistakes, but we'll see more clearly in the AM.



WOOT! I'd just like to say to all the nay-sayers... We're too rural, what? Perhaps it's that we have SMART fiscal policy. When it boils down to "what do you want from your government?" the answer is usually "SMART fiscal policy" or something related. (Better health, better education all fall under that, no?)

I'd just like to say, that's one. Join the movement, join the party, vote for a leader and vote for which direction you'd like to see our party head. Our fiscal policies are sound. Picking a new leader is amost more important than this by-election. Help us make the right choice.

Big congrats to the Hinman team. What an upset!

[mykalberta]

Yes congrats.

Actions always matter more than words and your actions show that you can win a seat. Now hopefully Mr Hinman is a better voice for all Albertans who are dis satisfied with the current puppet lawn gnome regime.