Henry Louis Gates Arrested in his own home

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by fatso

What I find odd is the nature of the phone call. Reports of a B&E? The neighbours don't know Gates live there? Or did they just see a black guy trying to get into a fancy house and assume the worse? If there is racial profiling in this scenario, it's probably there.

From what I read it didn't mention a time of day when the reported crime took place. If it was at night, it may have been pretty difficult for a neighbor to have identified Gates. Maybe it was a new neighbor, maybe the neigbors never talk to each other and don't even know each others first name. Far from racial profiling.

Guess what the headlines would have been if it actually was a robber. If the police didn't show up because they had a report of a black man breaking into Gates house. It would have been racism, "police refuse to respond to B&E call at black professors home".

Can't win either way.

[fatso]

that's why I used the clause "If there is racial profiling..." Not enough information to determine what happened.

Could be the neighbours thought Gates was still in China and heard shuffling next door and just called it in. Could be they don't know who lives there at all and saw a guy shuffling into the backyard. Could be they think all black people are gang members.

In any event, the phone call in my opinion is crucial to determining the police officer's state of mind in attending to the house. Can't make any claims about his behaviour without that in mind.

[missdpuck]

Sounds like a big pissing contest to me.

Would a cop "racially profile" an "uppity" black man? Possible. Happens every day.

Would a Harvard professor of ANY color be peeved that a mere (as mentiioned by another poster-"double-digit IQ moron") was confronting him? Possible. I'm sure that happens every day too.

That being said, yes of course profiling still exists. Both ways.


Just think what might have happened had this been Cornell West and not Gates. I'm an admirer of both BTW. Rap on Cornell!!!

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

It happened in the middle of the day, jofm. There are photos of Gates being arrested and led in handcuffs out the front door of his own house.

Which is why the police's story about him following them out and making a disturbance out in the street doesn't really hold a lot of water in my opinion.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by fatso

that's why I used the clause "If there is racial profiling..." Not enough information to determine what happened.

Could be the neighbours thought Gates was still in China and heard shuffling next door and just called it in. Could be they don't know who lives there at all and saw a guy shuffling into the backyard. Could be they think all black people are gang members.

In any event, the phone call in my opinion is crucial to determining the police officer's state of mind in attending to the house. Can't make any claims about his behaviour without that in mind.

Yeah, possible. We should keep in mind that though there is nominal diversity in a place like Cambridge, affluent New England areas tend to be predominantly white, and there's a lot of silent racism in those sorts of communities.

On the other hand, Henry Louis Gates, Jr. may not be famous on CP.... but he is in Cambridge, and in lit-crit circles more generally. I happen not to think he's a particularly great scholar, but that's neither here nor there. It seems weird to me that a neighbor wouldn't recognize him.

And as you said, one look at the guy would seem to confirm that he's not a robber. Well dressed, elderly and walks with a cane. As long as we're profiling, we probably should look at all the details that might be relevant.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

Just think what might have happened had this been Cornell West and not Gates. I'm an admirer of both BTW. Rap on Cornell!!!

It would have been a lot more ironic...

[troutman]

Obama spoke about the incident last night at his press conference:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/22/har...iew/index.html

"I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played," Obama said Wednesday night while taking questions after a White House news conference.

Cambridge authorities dropped disorderly conduct charges against Henry Louis Gates Jr. on Tuesday.

Obama defended Gates on Wednesday night, while admitting that he may be "a little biased," because Gates is a friend.

"But I think it's fair to say, No. 1, any of us would be pretty angry; No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and, No. 3 ... that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately."

The incident, Obama said, shows "how race remains a factor in this society."

[fatso]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Yeah, possible. We should keep in mind that though there is nominal diversity in a place like Cambridge, affluent New England areas tend to be predominantly white, and there's a lot of silent racism in those sorts of communities.

On the other hand, Henry Louis Gates, Jr. may not be famous on CP.... but he is in Cambridge, and in lit-crit circles more generally. I happen not to think he's a particularly great scholar, but that's neither here nor there. It seems weird to me that a neighbor wouldn't recognize him.

And as you said, one look at the guy would seem to confirm that he's not a robber. Well dressed, elderly and walks with a cane. As long as we're profiling, we probably should look at all the details that might be relevant.

ha ha... you had to get that dig in there eh? you lit nerd!

Didn't West leave Harvard claiming he was effectively profiled by the President for his lack of publishing? Or was that Princeton?

I was earlier trying to get at what you're saying here IFF. Gates would be pretty well known in the area, and I find it hard to believe a cop would just roll up on a guy 'like' him (elderly, distinguished) and suspect he's a thief, particularly in the kind of neighbourhood I presume Gates lives in.

Then again, your point about leading him OUT of the house in handcuffs is a pretty good one. I can't see them leading Stephen Greenblatt out of his manor in shackles. (Bhabha could go either way, depending on how seriously the cops take post-colonialism )

[Orange]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

And as you said, one look at the guy would seem to confirm that he's not a robber. Well dressed, elderly and walks with a cane.

Clearly you don't watch spiderman.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Gates addresses the incident. His story is pretty interesting, actually. Obviously, there's an element of he said/she said--but given the presence of numerous police witnesses, plus a photograph that at least somewhat contradicts the police report.... it looks a little damning for Officer Crowley.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/22/har...ml#cnnSTCVideo

[missdpuck]

That Larry Summers, he didn't like rap music...

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by fatso

Then again, your point about leading him OUT of the house in handcuffs is a pretty good one. I can't see them leading Stephen Greenblatt out of his manor in shackles. (Bhabha could go either way, depending on how seriously the cops take post-colonialism )

I'd like to arrest Homi Bhabha on the charge of obfuscatory diction.

That is a crime, right? It should be.

Your Stephen Greenblatt example is an excellent one, actually. That situation is pretty much unthinkable.

[gargamel]

This police officer may not have done anything wrong, but here's just one example of the type of people who are cops in Boston/Cambridge. A few months ago, I was leaving an Asian supermarket in Boston and a cop threatened to arrest me for shoplifting. I told the guy that I'd paid (I had), but he didn't believe me and said that he had watched me just walk by the cash register. I told him that I'd waited in line for 5 minutes then paid, and he asked me to describe the cashire. You try describing the cashire at an Asian supermarket. "Um, it was the short, dark haired Asian woman." Then he demanded to see my receit, but I'd thrown it away on my way out of the store, so he said he'd arrest me if I didn't dig it out of the trash and show him. I was frustrated, but I found the receit and showed him item-by-item everything that I'd bought. Then he finally let me go, but not before condescendingly asking why I had a Canadian flag on my shoulder (I was wearing my Flames jersey). That's when I realized that the guy knew that I hadn't done anything wrong all along, but he was just harassing me because he had the power and wanted to show me that he thought he was better than me because I'm not American (I am, but that's not the point). If I'd been dealing with that garbage my whole life like black people do in Boston, I'd have probably assumed it from the start and told the cop to dig the receit out himself if he wanted to see it so bad. Then I'd have probably been arrested just like Gates. I guess my point if that even if the officer in this situation had innocent motives, it's hard to blame Gates for reacting like he did.

[Boblobla]

I see there was a black cop there too, was he racially profiling as well?

[nfotiu]

I think the racial profiling thing is a bit over played in this case. I have a hard time seeing where the cops did anything wrong before the point where they arrested him. At that point they knew he lived there. I can't see any good reason why they arrested him though.

Sounds like Gates was acting like a jerk though, and should have probably been more understanding that the cops should do some level of due diligence considering he did have to force his door open.

You have the right to be a jerk though, and doesn't seem right to get arrested for it. At least there was not tasing or beating involved.

There are huge race issues in this country, but this doesn't seem like a very good example of the problem.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

I see there was a black cop there too, was he racially profiling as well?

If you watch Gates' interview you'll see that there's only one cop whose actions he questions. The "black cop" you refer to was the one who persuaded his buddies to cuff him in front so that he could still use his cane.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I think the racial profiling thing is a bit over played in this case. I have a hard time seeing where the cops did anything wrong before the point where they arrested him. At that point they knew he lived there. I can't see any good reason why they arrested him though.

Sounds like Gates was acting like a jerk though, and should have probably been more understanding that the cops should do some level of due diligence considering he did have to force his door open.

You have the right to be a jerk though, and doesn't seem right to get arrested for it. At least there was not tasing or beating involved.

There are huge race issues in this country, but this doesn't seem like a very good example of the problem.

Due diligence is definitely important, I agree. However, he did provide ID, and based on the available evidence never seems to have left his own porch, in spite of a police report that claims that he followed the cops out to their car.

His crime seems to be that the police officer didn't like the way he was being talked to--and as you say, being a jerk is a right. I guess my question follows from fatso's: can you imagine an elderly, well-dressed white male being led from his own house in handcuffs after a break and enter call?

There are other questions. Why did the officer enter the house without Gates' permission? Why did he refuse to comply with Gates' request to give his name and badge number? If Gates was creating a public nuisance, why was he arrested on his own porch?

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Due diligence is definitely important, I agree. However, he did provide ID, and based on the available evidence never seems to have left his own porch, in spite of a police report that claims that he followed the cops out to their car.

His crime seems to be that the police officer didn't like the way he was being talked to--and as you say, being a jerk is a right. I guess my question follows from fatso's: can you imagine an elderly, well-dressed white male being led from his own house in handcuffs after a break and enter call?

There are other questions. Why did the officer enter the house without Gates' permission? Why did he refuse to comply with Gates' request to give his name and badge number? If Gates was creating a public nuisance, why was he arrested on his own porch?

If it was overzealous black cops that showed up and the white guy kept claiming the only reason the cops where there is because they were racist than yes, I could see the white guy getting arrested.

You think only black people are arrested for being belligerent to cops? So because he is rich it gives him some special privilege?

It's like I am listening to Jesse Jackson.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

You think only black people are arrested for being belligerent to cops? So because he is rich it gives him some special privilege?

No. But maybe the standard for "belligerent" isn't the same for Henry Louis Gates as it would have been for Stanley Fish or Harold Bloom.

Very useful Jesse Jackson comment, though.

[nfotiu]

His crime seems to be that the police officer didn't like the way he was being talked to--and as you say, being a jerk is a right. I guess my question follows from fatso's: can you imagine an elderly, well-dressed white male being led from his own house in handcuffs after a break and enter call?

You know what, I can. I had a beligerent, highly principled, old uncle (white), who got himself arrested on the streets of Edmonton. I can't remember what he was doing, but it was not much, but the cops asked for him to show his id. He thought it was wrong to be asked for ID, and went on and on until they arrested him.