Henry Louis Gates Arrested in his own home

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

On a lighter note, Dave Chappelle is funny.

Yeah I am watching the posted clip and it is virtually this thread to a T, LOL.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Well it didn't? He called the police actions stupid on a national news conference tonight.

After the charges had already been dropped. So yeah--that merits a on at least two levels. Obama isn't some omnipotent antichrist. He's one politician. If the charges had even a little merit they would have stood up regardless of his comments.

[metallicat]

I said I didn't know why the charges were dropped. My comment about Obama was slightly tongue in cheek, despite the fact that I think he shouldn't have said it. I don't think you can use the dropped charges argument here, because like I said, charges get dropped all the time.

I was a witness to a brutal beating/drug deal gone bad a couple of years ago. Open and shut case based on mine and a co-workers testimony. It didn't even get to that point, because charges were dropped. Were they innocent? Hell no.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

I was a witness to a brutal beating/drug deal gone bad a couple of years ago. Open and shut case based on mine and a co-workers testimony. It didn't even get to that point, because charges were dropped. Were they innocent? Hell no.

Well, sometimes charges are dropped because there's no evidence. If he was being such a disturbance, shouldn't there be some evidentiary proof of this? Neighbors, witnessing his behavior? The other police officer at the scene? Passersby? There are even photos of the arrest. Who knows--maybe there's even a video! If he was that big of a disturbance, shouldn't they be able to meet what must be a fairly lax legal standard of proof for that particular crime?

I'm guessing that whoever reviewed the file judged that Gates' reaction would be found to be in keeping with the context and circumstances he was placed under. My feeling is that rather than preparing their case against Gates, the Cambridge police department is now preparing their own defense in a lawsuit against them. Just a guess, though.

[monkeyman]

Ha Ha, Dave Chappelle is awesome. This whole mess could have been avoided if Gates had a white friend like Chip.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Well, sometimes charges are dropped because there's no evidence. If he was being such a disturbance, shouldn't there be some evidentiary proof of this? Neighbors, witnessing his behavior? The other police officer at the scene? Passersby? There are even photos of the arrest. Who knows--maybe there's even a video! If he was that big of a disturbance, shouldn't they be able to meet what must be a fairly lax legal standard of proof for that particular crime?

I'm guessing that whoever reviewed the file judged that Gates' reaction would be found to be in keeping with the context and circumstances he was placed under. My feeling is that rather than preparing their case against Gates, the Cambridge police department is now preparing their own defense in a lawsuit against them. Just a guess, though.

You could be right, but neither of us were there. I am just going to go by the police report, which IMO, is the only thing that can be taken at face value here. But that's just me. Charges have been dropped, and if this guy decides to sue, I'll just shake my head. Another example of how litigious this world really is.

[monkeyman]

If Gates sues the Cambridge police department over this, it's a complete disgrace and takes something away from real discrimination cases. each and every one of these, over reaction, playing the race card, takes away from real discrimination cases and erode their legitimacy. but who cares if you've had your feelings hurt by a cop who asks you for id.

[sec304]

Isn't this the exact plot to the movie "Amos and Andrew" with Nicholas Cage and Samuel L Jackson?????

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Anyone still think racial profiling is dead in America?

Who has said that it is dead?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Who has said that it is dead?

Fair point.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

If Gates sues the Cambridge police department over this, it's a complete disgrace and takes something away from real discrimination cases. each and every one of these, over reaction, playing the race card, takes away from real discrimination cases and erode their legitimacy. but who cares if you've had your feelings hurt by a cop who asks you for id.

Maybe the same kind of person who arrests someone for yelling at them after they've been investigated for breaking into their own home?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

When police got there and knocked on the door, Gates answered, and they asked him to step outside. He was understandably frustrated, but both sides agree that he at that point showed his ID to the officer--who then arrested him anyway, for reasons that are a bit hard to fathom.

But according to the report he refused.

Gates refused to step outside to speak with the officer, the police report said, and when Crowley told Gates that he was investigating a possible break-in, Gates opened the front door and exclaimed, "Why, because I'm a black man in America?" the report said.

The report said Gates initially refused to show the officer identification

Is the cop suppose to assume that he lives there? Show the cop your ID end of story...playing the race card is kinda stupid, the guy is doing his job.

Police may use a disorderly conduct charge to keep the peace when people are behaving in a disruptive manner to themselves or others, but present no serious public danger.

I am still not sure how this is racial profiling, it states he refused to speak to the officer and refused to show his ID....the cop is investigating a possible break in..he is asking for ID because he needs proof that you live there...the color of your skin doesnt matter, this correct procedure.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Both sides agree that Gates showed his ID. Gates claims he walked through his house to get his wallet. The police claim that he didn't show ID right away. However--here's the important part. Regardless of how stupid he felt it was to have to prove that he lived in the house in Cambridge that he owns--he nevertheless complied. Both sides agree that this happened. What happened before that is irrelevant.

You're assuming that his ID included his home as his address, just like you're assuming that he owned the house in Cambridge.

Maybe the Harvard ID he showed didn't include a home address?

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

You're assuming that his ID included his home as his address, just like you're assuming that he owned the house in Cambridge.

Maybe the Harvard ID he showed didn't include a home address?

Probably the reason he called for Cambridge University Police to come to the call. But again, that is far too logical, this must be a case of a white cop being a racist towards a black man.

[Orange]

With two clearly different sides of the story being told it's simply going to come down to one's own prejudice to decide who they feel was in the right, in my case I think it's quite obviously that both were in the wrong and over reacted.

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

I am still not sure how this is racial profiling, it states he refused to speak to the officer and refused to show his ID....the cop is investigating a possible break in..he is asking for ID because he needs proof that you live there...the color of your skin doesnt matter, this correct procedure.

Yeah, I agree. I'd find it hard to believe that if the officer responded to the same situation but this time it was a white or asian person he wouldn't ask for identification and verify the person lived there. If he did, then that would make him a lousy cop.

Let's face it, if the officer was black then this wouldn't be news worthy...which means we're being racist to the white guy!

[valo403]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

If Gates sues the Cambridge police department over this, it's a complete disgrace and takes something away from real discrimination cases. each and every one of these, over reaction, playing the race card, takes away from real discrimination cases and erode their legitimacy. but who cares if you've had your feelings hurt by a cop who asks you for id.

I'd actually be surprised if there was a civil suit filed. Gates has issued statements since the incident and he seems to be the only person who isn't creating a giant fuss over this.

[Cowperson]

A sympathetic portrait of the officer involved in the Boston Globe yesterday:

When Sergeant James M. Crowley climbed the front steps of Henry Louis Gates Jr.’s house last week and unexpectedly placed himself in international headlines, it was not the first time he had a memorable encounter in the line of duty with a prominent black man. Nearly 16 years ago, as a Brandeis University police officer, Crowley desperately tried to save the life of Reggie Lewis after the Boston Celtics star collapsed while practicing in the school gym.

“It bothers him terribly that he couldn’t save him,’’ Crowley’s 74-year-old mother, Verina Crowley, said yesterday, speaking of her son and the famous basketball player.


http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...ont_apologize/

Cowperson

[fatso]

This one could go either way imo. Really it just depends on matters that would have to be determined after-the-fact and by a judge (if it gets in front of one).

1. is it standard policy for police to ask for ID from persons inside the house when responding to a break-and-enter? (it may be, but I didn't see it in the link).

2. what was the actual exchange between Gates and the Sergeant? Kind of a he-said/he-said thing here, so it's tough to say. I didn't know you could get arrested for 'tumultuous conduct' though, especially in your own damned home.

In some respect I feel bad for the officer. Once that call goes in about a break-and-enter, he has to show up. If he's not thorough, he's gonna get dinged later. If he is thorough, and it's the homeowner who is doing the break-and-enter, he looks trigger-happy. Kind of a no-win.

Plus, having lived in Cambridge, I know it's by-and-large a pretty liberal community. Gates is a pretty snazzy dresser and the Harvard professors who live in Cambridge live in pretty fancy and set areas. I'd imagine most cops would know they're in an area where faculty and other rich people live, and that the faculty is pretty ethnically diverse. As such, I'm inclined to believe the cop didn't necessarily racially profile Gates and get all law-and-order on him, but was simply doing his job.

What I find odd is the nature of the phone call. Reports of a B&E? The neighbours don't know Gates live there? Or did they just see a black guy trying to get into a fancy house and assume the worse? If there is racial profiling in this scenario, it's probably there.

[jolinar of malkshor]

I think both were probably at fault. The police were investigating a possible B&E. Sounds like Mr. Gates was fairly pissed that some police were telling him to prove that he was the owner of the house. Once he proved that he was the owner or the resident of the house it should have been over. But like some have said, if Gates followed the officers out of the house and continued to berate the officers, then that could easily be "causing a disturbance". I have found that the police in the US are much more prone to charging people for "causing a disturbance" for very minor things than the police in Canada. I dealt with a guy once (a White guy) who was charged AND convicted of disorderly conduct because he had parked his vehicle on the yellow line of the parking stall.

A story related to this one. A friend of mine came home from the bar in Lethbridge one night. He was totally blasted. He locked his keys in his house. He was trying to get through a window and a neighbor had witnessed this and thought someone was breaking into the house. The police responded to a B&E call. They almost arrested my friend, however, he convinced them to let him go through the window and then he could show him a bill with his name on it. His DL had a different address so the police originally didn't believe he lived there. Once he produced the documents, the police left. My friend was not hostile to the police and completely understood why they were there and was glad they were there becuase if it was actually a robber he would want the police to responde.

On the face of this I would say it is not at all racism and possibly both parties are at fault. Gates being very definsive and rude and the police being to sensitive and laying charges when they probably didn't need to.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Anyone still think racial profiling is dead in America?

How is this racial profiling? Someone reported a crime in progress. The police responded.