Anddd Boom goes the (N.Korean) nuclear dynamite

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Hmmm. This news interests me.
I'll soon be moving to a place about 200kms from the North Korean border, and 400kms from the suspected test site. I hope the lead in the water up there makes me impervious!

You moving to Dalian?

[Fozzie_DeBear]

I think this may be a little different...since both Russia and China have condemned these acts as a threat to peace.

I found this tour company with interesting (and pasteurized) pictures of the DPRK

[KTrain]

I understand why North Korea shouldn't have nukes. Kim Jong Il isn't the kind of person I would want with their finger on the trigger of anything.

However, a little over a decade ago they told France that they shouldn't be testing nuclear weapons. The same with India and Pakistan. They went so far as to place sanctions against both nations. These sanctions have since been lifted. More than likely for economic reasons as opposed to philosophical ones.

Is it OK for China to have nuclear weapons? They don't exactly have a great history for human rights violations, but they actually have stuff that the US wants.

Originally Posted by peter12

I don't understand that some people don't understand that the United States is a liberal democracy with a functioning system of checks and balances that essentially cripples the use of top-down Presidential power except in the circumstances of extreme danger or contingency.

North Korea is one of the last remaining political god-head cults left in the world. It views its own people as little more than pawns and the rest of the world's people as enemies.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by KTrain

I understand why North Korea shouldn't have nukes. Kim Jong Il isn't the kind of person I would want with their finger on the trigger of anything.

However, a little over a decade ago they told France that they shouldn't be testing nuclear weapons. The same with India and Pakistan. They went so far as to place sanctions against both nations. These sanctions have since been lifted. More than likely for economic reasons as opposed to philosophical ones.

Is it OK for China to have nuclear weapons? They don't exactly have a great history for human rights violations, but they actually have stuff that the US wants.

No one has the say if is ok or not. No it isn't ok, but we have to live with the fact. The US is not the teacher at the front of the class and they do not act like it, but they are the leaders of the free world, like it or not. Therefore they take the lead in condemnation but they are not the only ones condemning NK. We, the free world, don't want countries to build up nuclear arms due to the predictable and possible unforeseen consequences. Hence the we use whatever influence we have to try to persuade other countries not to build these arms.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't agree with that, once you have the bomb technology building the actual weapon is a matter of math.

The North Korean's have two out of the four steps done.

1. build working bomb.

2. design delivery system

3. marry bomb to delivery system

4. manufacture.

North Korea is over the tough parts. I wouldn't put it at years and years. I'd put it at a year tops because the NK know that the race is on and the bomb guarantees security.

Very true,and 3 and 4 in all likelihood is close.

So what are the choices?

A) Try and starve out a country with nukes?
B) Invite them with champaign and open arms to the exclusive nuclear club?
C) A couple of pin-point attacks on their nuclear sites?.

I feel the worst!

[HOZ]

The UN prepares the DREADED RESOLUTION

"You are bust'n my barrs Hans Brix!!!"

The UN Security Council has agreed to begin work immediately on a new resolution on North Korea after its nuclear test, its chairman said.
Members voiced strong opposition to the test and condemned it, Russia's UN envoy, Vitaly Churkin, said after an emergency meeting of the Council.
North Korea announced the underground test as part of work to bolster what it called its nuclear deterrent.
The US ambassador to the UN said America wanted "strong measures".
Susan Rice said she expected the Security Council to start working on the resolution on Tuesday.

Things will be all well.........by Tuesday.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

You moving to Dalian?

Changchun 长春 actually. Up in Jilin province. Dalian is a place I wouldn't mind moving to a some point though.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

It's all over Fox News...

link to USGS http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/...af.php#details

Is that worthy of the rolling my eyes smiley more than it NOT being all over the other news outlets?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by HOZ

The UN prepares the DREADED RESOLUTION

"You are bust'n my barrs Hans Brix!!!"

The UN Security Council has agreed to begin work immediately on a new resolution on North Korea after its nuclear test, its chairman said.
Members voiced strong opposition to the test and condemned it, Russia's UN envoy, Vitaly Churkin, said after an emergency meeting of the Council.
North Korea announced the underground test as part of work to bolster what it called its nuclear deterrent.
The US ambassador to the UN said America wanted "strong measures".
Susan Rice said she expected the Security Council to start working on the resolution on Tuesday.

Things will be all well.........by Tuesday.

Only 17 more resolutions and subsequent violations to go before the US reaches the point of not being justified in taking action and incurs another round of world hatred.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by driveway

Thing is, that's all the bomb guarantees. They're a weapons system whose purpose is to never be used, but just sit there threatening everyone with the possibility of use.

No one is going to get nuked. Ever. I'm calling it now.

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but.....

[FlamesAddiction]

It never ceases to amaze me how many governments are so willing to irradiate their own people by detonating nuclear devices so close to their populated areas.

[narbeZ]

North Korea is ridiculous......

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It never ceases to amaze me how many governments are so willing to irradiate their own people by detonating nuclear devices so close to their populated areas.

The North Korea values their people on the same or lower level as a good donkey.

In other words beasts of burden to be worked relentlessly until they die.

Food is a optional tool to motivate them, it would make an excellent once a year christmas present but the government believes that only their dear leader deserves christmas presents.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by narbeZ

North Korea is ridiculous......

Sure its ridiculous that they have over a million men in uniform not including another 90,000 special forces troops.

Its ridiculous that they have about 8000 heavy artillery pieces zero'd in on Seoul.

Its ridiculous that North Korea probably has the biggest Biochemical weapons program and stockpiles on the planet.

They might be ridiculous but they are a very real and uncontrolled threat.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Sure its ridiculous that they have over a million men in uniform not including another 90,000 special forces troops.

Its ridiculous that they have about 8000 heavy artillery pieces zero'd in on Seoul.

Its ridiculous that North Korea probably has the biggest Biochemical weapons program and stockpiles on the planet.

They might be ridiculous but they are a very real and uncontrolled threat.

You know your stuff Captain, I am interested in hearing what you think should be done. I am not being condescending, I truly want to know.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

You know your stuff Captain, I am interested in hearing what you think should be done. I am not being condescending, I truly want to know.

At this point there's not much that can be done without the radical happening.

A air raid would probably be murdered, North Korea has always been considered Russia's lab when it comes to designing air defense systems, and Kim Jr has spend lavishly on it.

There is a dire lack of human intelligence gathering in North Korea, and I doubt that the weapons assembly plant location is even known, its also unlikely that they are storing the bomb making material at a known location.

Its also likely that these facilities are extremely hardened against air strikes, so even if a air or cruise missile strike short of nuclear is successful there's no way of knowing if the materials, manufacturing area and the skilled workers have been destroyed.

The U.S. marine corp has extensively practiced small unit amphibious units expressly trained with removing nuclear threats and smashing weapons producing power plants, however there is not enough good intelligence to know where the manufacturing facilities and assembly plants are located so a on the ground mission would fail.

In this case even a political solution doesn't work because Kim doesn't care if we cut off food and money and starve his citizens to death, and he'll likely turn to other sources of money in exchange for technologies and skilled people export if he has to.

The only solution is to let him assemble the weapons and increase satellite recon over North Korea to find the launch sites which will most likely follow the soviet doctrine of being mobile. If they NK's use fixed launch sites for their medium and long range missiles the missiles themselves will be liquid fueled which means that they aren't always ready to launch and are fueled before launch which takes 30 minutes. With the short range mobile solid fuel rockets they merely have to take the cammo netting off raise the gantry and fire which takes 10 minutes.

No you basically let them finish the missiles at this point, pin point the sites and launchers with satellite. Put additional assets in the ocean with cruise missile capabilities, maybe offer the South Korean's their own deterrence forces with short range nuclear missiles. Also the American's also let Kim know that they've targeted North Korea cities with several squadrons of ballistic missiles.

At this point the genie is well and out of the bottle and you can't stuff it back in.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

At this point there's not much that can be done without the radical happening.

A air raid would probably be murdered, North Korea has always been considered Russia's lab when it comes to designing air defense systems, and Kim Jr has spend lavishly on it.

There is a dire lack of human intelligence gathering in North Korea, and I doubt that the weapons assembly plant location is even known, its also unlikely that they are storing the bomb making material at a known location.

Its also likely that these facilities are extremely hardened against air strikes, so even if a air or cruise missile strike short of nuclear is successful there's no way of knowing if the materials, manufacturing area and the skilled workers have been destroyed.

The U.S. marine corp has extensively practiced small unit amphibious units expressly trained with removing nuclear threats and smashing weapons producing power plants, however there is not enough good intelligence to know where the manufacturing facilities and assembly plants are located so a on the ground mission would fail.

In this case even a political solution doesn't work because Kim doesn't care if we cut off food and money and starve his citizens to death, and he'll likely turn to other sources of money in exchange for technologies and skilled people export if he has to.

The only solution is to let him assemble the weapons and increase satellite recon over North Korea to find the launch sites which will most likely follow the soviet doctrine of being mobile. If they NK's use fixed launch sites for their medium and long range missiles the missiles themselves will be liquid fueled which means that they aren't always ready to launch and are fueled before launch which takes 30 minutes. With the short range mobile solid fuel rockets they merely have to take the cammo netting off raise the gantry and fire which takes 10 minutes.

No you basically let them finish the missiles at this point, pin point the sites and launchers with satellite. Put additional assets in the ocean with cruise missile capabilities, maybe offer the South Korean's their own deterrence forces with short range nuclear missiles. Also the American's also let Kim know that they've targeted North Korea cities with several squadrons of ballistic missiles.

At this point the genie is well and out of the bottle and you can't stuff it back in.

Great write-up, thank you.

[CaptainCrunch]

North Korea ups the stakes.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/No...047/story.html

He reiterated that the North was no longer bound by an armistice signed at the end of the 1950-53 Korean War because Washington had ignored its responsibility as a signatory by drawing Seoul into the anti-proliferation effort.

The North's next step may to be resume operations at all of Yongbyon, with experts saying it could take the North up to a year to reverse disablement steps. Once running, it can produce enough plutonium to mke one bomb a year.

The hermit state has also threatened to launch a long-range ballistic missile if the Security Council does not apologize for tightening sanctions to punish it for an April launch widely seen as a missile test that violated UN measures.

[CaptainCrunch]

Kim Jung Il moves to name his son Kim Jung Un as his successor. Kim Jung Un is his youngest son and is poised to become the leader of North Korea as early as 2010 at the age of 26.

How many of you s have become the leaders of a military powerhouse at that age?

So the question needs to be asked, were the shananigan's of the past few weeks the older Kim's moves to consolidate his power with his military so that he could make this move?

A little more on the hard drinking, basketball lovin, skiing next leader of North Korea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-un

[mikey_the_redneck]

Blame America for North Korea having nuclear weapons capability. They are the ones who secretively sold the technology to North Korea during previous presidential administration.