Poker site caught cheating

[albertGQ]

Here is how you can cheat as well. Have about five of your buddies at a table and all log in to MSN. You can share your hole cards and increase your odds of winning. You'll all have different IP addresses. Thats how I think those online sites cheat

[ericschand]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Here is how you can cheat as well. Have about five of your buddies at a table and all log in to MSN. You can share your hole cards and increase your odds of winning. You'll all have different IP addresses. Thats how I think those online sites cheat

If you look through the terms and conditions on some sites when you
sign up, you will find that they contain clauses like they can monitor
what programs you have running. They can take screenshots of your
screen. They can monitor incoming and outgoing network traffic.

One reason is they can use that data to seed their random generator(s).
[Although a university managed to crack one sites random generator,
as it was only using time, and then proceeded to watch everyone's
cards. They then informed the site, which immediately changed.]

The other is to watch for simple collusion using AIM, MSN, etc., by
monitoring processes.

ers

PS. That's not to say you are not correct, I bet there's a LOT of collusion
going on.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by ericschand

If you look through the terms and conditions on some sites when you
sign up, you will find that they contain clauses like they can monitor
what programs you have running. They can take screenshots of your
screen. They can monitor incoming and outgoing network traffic.

Better stop looking at porn while I'm playing...seriously though how can they do that if you were in something like your personal banking?

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by ericschand

If you look through the terms and conditions on some sites when you
sign up, you will find that they contain clauses like they can monitor
what programs you have running. They can take screenshots of your
screen. They can monitor incoming and outgoing network traffic.

Can they do this with your actual desktop if you are running their poker software on a virtual machine?

Do they also monitor the network traffic for all the machines on your network or just the traffic on the network from your machine?

[Bobblehead]

There are a number of Online games that scan your computer memory looking for cheats or altered game files, and allow you to take screenshots of the player, but as far as I know it is only screenshots of the client and not the desktop as a whole.

[ericschand]

I believe the ones I read that had the screenshot clause were
Party Poker and Paradise Poker. From what I recall it was a general
screenshot.

A virtual machine, such as through VMWare (http://www.vmware.com ,
you can get their VMWare Server for free), would not display your current
desktop, only the desktop of the VM.

Further, it allowed process monitoring.

I read a thread, perhaps on the 2+2 forums, that talked about
some of the stuff "support" personnel from poker sites saw in
the screenshots. Everything from porn, to the aforementioned
banking info.

I do not know how they would use the network traffic to isolate
cheating. I would doubt the traffic between 2 cheating machines
would be very high. Hitting this site would probably use more
bandwidth than something like that.

As someone alluded to, doesn't WoW or many other online gaming
do the same thing?

Note that I only have info from user agreements and various news
sources. I do not know it all actually works, and am just guessing
as to how they use the information.

ers

[ericschand]

One more thing about collusion.

After how many players do you get diminishing returns, where your time
isn't worth the amount of money you're bringing in?

If you have 10 players, and 5 are controlled by you, how many times are
you actually going to be playing against the other players? Versus playing
against yourself and shuffling your own money about or to the rake?

9/10 there would almost be no point? 2/10 is good? 3/10?

ers

[evman150]

Ok so now you guys are whining about collusion, saying "this is how the site cheats".

No, that is how other people cheat.

And they crack down on collusion pretty quickly. They track IPs and look for common combinations. And if you're caught colluding, account banned and money seized, see you later loser. Not even close to worth it.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by evman150

Ok so now you guys are whining about collusion, saying "this is how the site cheats".

No, that is how other people cheat.

And they crack down on collusion pretty quickly. They track IPs and look for common combinations. And if you're caught colluding, account banned and money seized, see you later loser. Not even close to worth it.

wow, I never realized you were so sensitive about the subject

[Weiser Wonder]

Pokerstars is very good about collusion. You won't get away with it if you are at all obvious there.

A less prominent news story is a victory for the integrity of online poker. Thev0id won the World Championship of Online Poker Main Event but had it taken away when they found he had been multiaccounting (playing the tournament with more than one account). It is disconcerting that he was doing it in the first place but great that pokerstars caught him. It will make others think twice.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by arsenal

Nothing. You just cant be connected throught the same IP.

I've read others say this also, but, I've had my old computer and laptop, running off the same IP address, and I've played in the same room. I've controlled 2 different users at at poker table using the same IP address, so it's definately possible.

BTW, don't think of me as a cheater....haha...I only did this once. It was only distracting, not fun at all. Anyway, this is why I'd never play a big money tournament on a poker website. I'd imagine alot of the users are actually playing off of the same individual.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by return to the red

wow, I never realized you were so sensitive about the subject

Colour me jaded.

Being a poker player, bad beat stories and the "it's rigged" mantra get annoying really fast.

[urban1]

I think a lot of cheating goes on.

I think of how many scam artists there are out there who pull off elaborate scams where the proceeds of the crime are small compared to the effort required.

Whether its highschool or college kids with some computer knowledge, amature hackers, or some scammer with a computer in Nigeria, I cant for a minute believe that these poker sites are so secure. I believe they can catch the obvious scammers such as looking for the same combo of IPs in games and looking for other software you running on your machine but that doesnt take much knowledge to get around.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by urban1

I think a lot of cheating goes on.

I think of how many scam artists there are out there who pull off elaborate scams where the proceeds of the crime are small compared to the effort required.

Whether its highschool or college kids with some computer knowledge, amature hackers, or some scammer with a computer in Nigeria, I cant for a minute believe that these poker sites are so secure. I believe they can catch the obvious scammers such as looking for the same combo of IPs in games and looking for other software you running on your machine but that doesnt take much knowledge to get around.

In order to collude properly you must actually be good at poker. Otherwise you will be caught.

All it takes is one player saying something fishy is going on and you and your friend will be banned from playing at the same table.

As for hacking into the system, to do what exactly? Read hole cards? In order for this to be a successful scam, the hacker would first have to hack into the system, play for long enough to make it profitable, and finally figure out a way to cash out. All without getting caught or doing something suspicious that gets their funds frozen. Not really realistic. The much more likely scenario is an inside job, where someone who works for a poker site and has access to the hole cards decides to use it to their advantage. That's what happened in this case and they got caught.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by evman150

Colour me jaded.

Being a poker player, bad beat stories and the "it's rigged" mantra get annoying really fast.

It seems to me like "it's rigged" and "people might be cheating" are very different things. Personally, I don't play online--because for me, poker is recreation, and I'd much rather do it in person with my friends--but I don't think the sites are "rigged." They'd go out of business quickly if they were--people will only play a shell game a few times before they start saving their money.

But PEOPLE try to cheat all the time, both online and in live games. Because there's very little transparency, at least on the user end, it's understandable that some people are a little nervous about investing their money when they don't trust the integrity of the game. That's not to say that cheating is rampant, but my guess is it happens sometimes, and that people aren't always caught.

Either way, there's no need to get grumpy with people about it. Being a recreational poker player is not a crime.

[urban1]

I didnt mean theyd hack into the system, i meant theyd have enough computer savvy to be able to know what the sites monitor and how to go undetected.

People continue to try to cheat in bricks&mortar casinos and have done so for decades. Get caught cheating in a casino and your banned and your picture and info gets shared with other casinos. Yet the cheaters find ways to get back in and continue cheating. Why would online be any different

[Qwerty]

http://www.gambling911.com/Absolute-Poker-101907.html

Absolute Poker Admits "Internal Breach"
Absolute Poker on Friday morning admitted an "internal breach" following accusations from the online poker community that a company "employee" had been able to see other players whole cards.

Small article here on an update on the OP

[HOOT]

As much as I love playing poker I just have never trusted online poker sites. I still play them but nothing more than a $2 tourny or something just to pass time while listening to Mahr during an untelevised game.

Its too easy for people to cheat I have a friend who plays...or sorry cheats...for a living on poker sites. It sucks for the people who really just want to play some hands of poker, when you are getting beat by the same guy every hand no matter what.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by HOOT

As much as I love playing poker I just have never trusted online poker sites. I still play them but nothing more than a $2 tourny or something just to pass time while listening to Mahr during an untelevised game.

Its too easy for people to cheat I have a friend who plays...or sorry cheats...for a living on poker sites. It sucks for the people who really just want to play some hands of poker, when you are getting beat by the same guy every hand no matter what.

for interest at the topic at hand I would be interested to know exactly how he cheats

[Rathji]

Knowing someone who used to work for a online poker company. Trust me, never ever play onine poker for money.

His job, was to monitor the winnings of online players, and if they started winning to much, he launched a bot, that played against them and could see hole cards. 90% of the time he just chat to make people believe there was a real person playing