Vick to Plead Guilty

[burn_baby_burn]

But isn't gambling the whole purpose of dog fighting? Isn't dog fighting illegal because its sole purpose is a venue for illegal gambling? For Mike Vick to admit that he was involved in dog fighting, but never gambled seems very hard to believe.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

An individual will usually only get 1 deer tag per season. And in certain area's you need your name to be drawn to receive a tag. MicK Vick was killing numerous dogs every year.

I think the feds need to ask Marbury a few questions. Does he participate or bet on dog fighting?

Not that it's really relvant to the conversation, but what you're saying isn't all that true.

Yes, you have to get drawn for most areas, but for the most part depending on where you are and what you're drawing for you'll usually get at least 1 tag per year, plus anyone can buy a General whitetail tag, so most people get at least two.
Then there are the areas where you can get suplimental tags (if the population is really high)

For example, this year, I could potentially shoot 9 deer.
I bought my whitetail general tag (I also get two suplemental whitetail doe tags for the area I'm going hunting in).
Then I got drawn for whitetail doe (drawn by Big Valley)
I also got drawn for mule deer doe (also in Big Valley) and with that will come anywhere from 2-4 supplemental tags.
So I could potentially shoot 9 deer this year.
Of course I won't (I'll keep it to 2).

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Not that it's really relvant to the conversation, but what you're saying isn't all that true.

Yes, you have to get drawn for most areas, but for the most part depending on where you are and what you're drawing for you'll usually get at least 1 tag per year, plus anyone can buy a General whitetail tag, so most people get at least two.
Then there are the areas where you can get suplimental tags (if the population is really high)

For example, this year, I could potentially shoot 9 deer.
I bought my whitetail general tag (I also get two suplemental whitetail doe tags for the area I'm going hunting in).
Then I got drawn for whitetail doe (drawn by Big Valley)
I also got drawn for mule deer doe (also in Big Valley) and with that will come anywhere from 2-4 supplemental tags.
So I could potentially shoot 9 deer this year.
Of course I won't (I'll keep it to 2).

So your saying dog fighting isn't any worse than deer hunting?

[CaptainCrunch]

It looks like this is nothing more the posturing by Vick's attorney given what Vick's associates have confessed to and confessed to seeing Vick's actions.

There is now a very good chance that the plea arrangement is going to be yanked from the table and Vick is going to trial, which means if he's found guilty its unlikely that his sentence will be in the 18 month area.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the states charges.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

So your saying dog fighting isn't any worse than deer hunting?

Yeah, I can see how you would think that based on the fact that I started by stating that what I was about to say was not relevant to the conversation.

I was just pointing out that assuming the number of deer killed in a year is low is not necessarily true, and in any event it has no bearing on what someones opinion of dog fighting should be.
Does that mean that I think killing a deer to eat it, and that I'm allowed to kill a bunch of them based on keeping the popluation at a sustainable level is on the same level as dog fighting? What do you think?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

It looks like this is nothing more the posturing by Vick's attorney given what Vick's associates have confessed to and confessed to seeing Vick's actions.

There is now a very good chance that the plea arrangement is going to be yanked from the table and Vick is going to trial, which means if he's found guilty its unlikely that his sentence will be in the 18 month area.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the states charges.

So you think this was just a trial balloon to see what public response would be?

I could see that, but I'm not sure what they would hope to achieve, outside of seeing if there was a chance they could get a sympathetic jury.

I agree, it is very interesting, almost like an episode of Law and Order (how long until this actually becomes an episode, but I think they already did a dog-fighting episode before this case devloped)

[ken0042]

CNN Breaking News:

NFL star Michael Vick has admitted that he and his co-defendants killed dogs that did not fight well in papers filed on Friday with a federal court in Virginia.

In a plea agreement, Vick said he would plead guilty to one count of "Conspiracy to Travel in Interstate Commerce in Aid of Unlawful Activities and to Sponsor a Dog in an Animal Fighting Venture."

[Bobblehead]

So he is admitting to the animal cruelty, but keeping the charges of illegal gambling as far away from himself as possible.

Now it will be interesting to see what the NFL can/will do.

I don't think they can ban him for life. What suspension will they impose? My guess - 1 additional year after his sentence is complete.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

So he is admitting to the animal cruelty, but keeping the charges of illegal gambling as far away from himself as possible.

Now it will be interesting to see what the NFL can/will do.

I don't think they can ban him for life. What suspension will they impose? My guess - 1 additional year after his sentence is complete.

I bet Vick receives a 18 month jail term he will serve around 80%. The league will suspend him indefinetely, Vick will need to meet with the Commishner to try to get re-instated if its granted at that point I would guess he would of been away from NFL for ~ 3 years.

The next challenge for Vick will any team sign him? Especially since he was not a great QB to start with he has allot of talent but struggled in many areas (reading defenses..). Will any team want the PR nightmare to sign the guy?

[Sylvanfan]

Well even if he misses two years that is a long time to be out of the NFL not practicing, not learning to read defences, not watching film with the guidance of a coach, not learning a system. I think it would be hard for him to come back after being out of football for two years and play that position even if the PR nightmare wasn't surrounding him. I think a CFL team would certainly take a chance on him, but I don't know if a NFL team would be willing to give him a shot as a starter. His game as is requires a lot of refining and he'll likely miss two years in which he should have been refining his mental aspects of his game to match his physical attributes.

[transplant99]

Michael Vick filed his plea agreement in federal court Friday admitting to conspiracy in a dogfighting ring and helping kill pit bulls. He denied ever betting on the fights, only bankrolling them.

"Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick," a summary of facts in the case said, echoing language in plea agreements by three co-defendants who previously pleaded guilty.

The statement said that when the kennel's dogs won, the gambling proceeds were generally shared by Vick's three co-defendants -- Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.

"Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels," the summary said.

According to the statement, Vick also was involved with the others in killing six to eight dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions last April. The dogs were executed by drowning or hanging. "Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts" of Vick and two of the co-defendants, Phillips and Peace, the statement said.

In the plea agreement, the government committed to recommending a sentence on the low end of the federal sentencing guideline range of a year to 18 months. However, the conspiracy charge is punishable by up to five years in prison, and the judge is not bound by any recommendation or by the sentencing guidelines.

He didnt receive money from gambling? Yeah Ok...then why would he of been in the dogfighting business to begin with? What a load of hooey.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Yeah, I can see how you would think that based on the fact that I started by stating that what I was about to say was not relevant to the conversation.

I was just pointing out that assuming the number of deer killed in a year is low is not necessarily true, and in any event it has no bearing on what someones opinion of dog fighting should be.
Does that mean that I think killing a deer to eat it, and that I'm allowed to kill a bunch of them based on keeping the popluation at a sustainable level is on the same level as dog fighting? What do you think?

Did you miss the , in my post?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

So you think this was just a trial balloon to see what public response would be?

I could see that, but I'm not sure what they would hope to achieve, outside of seeing if there was a chance they could get a sympathetic jury.

I agree, it is very interesting, almost like an episode of Law and Order (how long until this actually becomes an episode, but I think they already did a dog-fighting episode before this case devloped)

I believe it was a test and to put pressure on the federal prosecutors. If Vick is successful in keeping the gambling charges away from himself by claiming that he financed but didn't participate it kicks a very large leg out of any NFL sanctions.

I find it hard to believe that the Feds aren't trying to run the rails on every single charge that Vick was up for including the gambling ones. Again though the 500 pound gorilla in the room is based around the states interest in going after Vic as well.

Look for the feds to withdraw the plea agreement on monday as any sign of weakness is potentially going to kill a few careers.

[Nikki]

Just got a rapid release text from TSN that says the NFL has suspended him without pay indefintely

http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/news_story/?ID=216788&hubname=nfl

[Pagal4321]

And now the he's suspended indefinately, he should get cut this weekend.

[burn_baby_burn]

Here are pieces of the letter Goddell sent to Vick.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...o&confirm=true

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Here are pieces of the letter Goddell sent to Vick.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=090...o&confirm=true

And here is the crux of the issue ....

Your plea agreement and the plea agreements of your co-defendants also demonstrate your significant involvement in illegal gambling. Even if you personally did not place bets, as you contend, your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL Player Contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player."

And the money shot...

"I have advised the Falcons that, with my decision today, they are no longer prohibited from acting and are now free to assert any claims or remedies available to them under the Collective Bargaining Agreement or your NFL Player Contract."

So how much signing bonus did he get, and how far into his contract is he?


EDIT: According to Wiki (the quickest place to dig up the info) On Dec 23, 2004 Vick signed a 10 year contract and the signing bonus was $37 million.
Depending upon how the pro-ration works, I'm guessing the Falcons can ask for around 80% of the signing bonus back. That is $29.6 million dollars.

[burn_baby_burn]

Well I hope Mike had a good time at the dog fights. Because it is going to have been an awfull expensive endeavor.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I have my doubts on the above story. After all of the pre-trial hype and threats I doubt that the feds will drop the charges related to Vicks conduct concerning the animals, and the illegal gambling.

If they do then this would be considered a major and dramatic loss of face by the feds, and the explaination would have to center around the charges being dropped due to lost evidence and not that Vick got a better deal because he's a rich, black athlete.

Yep....they get all the deals....always have too.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

And here is the crux of the issue ....
And the money shot...

So how much signing bonus did he get, and how far into his contract is he?


EDIT: According to Wiki (the quickest place to dig up the info) On Dec 23, 2004 Vick signed a 10 year contract and the signing bonus was $37 million.
Depending upon how the pro-ration works, I'm guessing the Falcons can ask for around 80% of the signing bonus back. That is $29.6 million dollars.

The biggest problem for the Falcons is even if they get some of the signing bonus back, he's still going to remain as a salary cap hit for a number of years.

Vick has double tapped the falcons in the head.