Vick to Plead Guilty

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Drunk Skunk

I have a question for the people that have posted in this thread. I'd like to say, firstoff, that I think what Vick did is deplorable, and in no way do I think he should recieve any special treatment. Okay, now that I have it out of the way, does anyone think that Vick should get a second chance?

Nope. This wasn't something impulsive or something he did because he was drunk. This was deliberately planned and executed several times.

[HOZ]

Absolutely disgusting. What do you say about a guy who had it all?


Today, with a pile of dead dogs and criminal charges he has agreed to plead guilty to, Michael Vick has no ownership of the sporting world. Worse, he has no ownership of his future, having sold that and his reputation down the river in exchange for some low-class bloodsport thrills. He's all but helpless.

Supporters dwindling, teammates distancing, friends rolling for the feds, ownership seemingly ready to move on without him, league seemingly ready to exile him, justice system ready to incarcerate him -- it's been a stunning study in self-sabotage.

He IS total trash.

[HOZ]

[Cowperson]

Today, with a pile of dead dogs and criminal charges he has agreed to plead guilty to, Michael Vick has no ownership of the sporting world. Worse, he has no ownership of his future, having sold that and his reputation down the river in exchange for some low-class bloodsport thrills. He's all but helpless.

Supporters dwindling, teammates distancing, friends rolling for the feds, ownership seemingly ready to move on without him, league seemingly ready to exile him, justice system ready to incarcerate him -- it's been a stunning study in self-sabotage.

It's a stunning commentary on how people are numbed to the death of a human, aka the perception of a murderer, but won't tolerate cruelty imposed on what is considered a pet.

The pet industry is $41 billion in annual sales in America alone.

Cowperson

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Nope. This wasn't something impulsive or something he did because he was drunk. This was deliberately planned and executed several times.

So it is with steroid users...and the NFL is chalk FULL of those guys. They all get second chances. DUI drivers, domestic abuse guys, cocaine deadlers/users...all of them get second chances.

I hate Vick's actions as much as anyone and i hope they throw the thug in jail for 3 or 4 years minimum.

However, there is no reason nor precedence for the NFL to suspend him for life...it would be so hypocritical and look like a complete over-reaction compared to things in the past.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So it is with steroid users...and the NFL is chalk FULL of those guys. They all get second chances. DUI drivers, domestic abuse guys, cocaine deadlers/users...all of them get second chances.

I hate Vick's actions as much as anyone and i hope they throw the thug in jail for 3 or 4 years minimum.

However, there is no reason nor precedence for the NFL to suspend him for life...it would be so hypocritical and look like a complete over-reaction compared to things in the past.

Except for the fact there was illegal gambling.

While everything you mentioned is a larger issue for society, it is the illegal gambling that may cause the league to ban him for life.

I've often read that one of the reasons the NFL is so popular is that it is perfect to gamble on - a bunch of games all happening in the space of a day. There are so many different ways to wager on the NFL.

Any hint if illegal gambling, even if Vick wasn't gambling on football (who knows what sort of inside injury info he could have divulged while in that less-than-reputable company, what sort of coin that type of not-on-the-injury-report information could have been worth), Vick will be dealt with harshly.

Should Vick be given a second chance after he paid his debt to society? Sure.

Is the NFL obligated to give him a second chance? No

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So it is with steroid users...and the NFL is chalk FULL of those guys. They all get second chances. DUI drivers, domestic abuse guys, cocaine deadlers/users...all of them get second chances.

I hate Vick's actions as much as anyone and i hope they throw the thug in jail for 3 or 4 years minimum.

However, there is no reason nor precedence for the NFL to suspend him for life...it would be so hypocritical and look like a complete over-reaction compared to things in the past.

Allthough everyone is upset and disgusted about the animal abuse. It is the gambling that will get him banned for life from the NFL.

[transplant99]

While everything you mentioned is a larger issue for society, it is the illegal gambling that may cause the league to ban him for life.

Allthough everyone is upset and disgusted about the animal abuse. It is the gambling that will get him banned for life from the NFL.

I understand thats the reason for the suspension...however it has never been alleged he gambled on football, which is the one thing that would allow a lifetime suspension.

Players gamble all the time, whether it be in casinos, at the race tracks... whatever. The whole notion that gambling on dog fights is somewhat more heinous to the NFL as opposed to one of a myriad of players playing black jack is ridiculous. The entire NFL is DRIVEN by gambling, and why it is so popular. Why do they release injury reports every week? Why are point spreads so crucial to deciding who are favorites?

The NFL cannot suspend a guy for life for gambling unless it was on his own sport and a possibility he could affect the outcome of games.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I understand thats the reason for the suspension...however it has never been alleged he gambled on football, which is the one thing that would allow a lifetime suspension.

Players gamble all the time, whether it be in casinos, at the race tracks... whatever. The whole notion that gambling on dog fights is somewhat more heinous to the NFL as opposed to one of a myriad of players playing black jack is ridiculous. The entire NFL is DRIVEN by gambling, and why it is so popular. Why do they release injury reports every week? Why are point spreads so crucial to deciding who are favorites?

The NFL cannot suspend a guy for life for gambling unless it was on his own sport and a possibility he could affect the outcome of games.

Thats where I disagree.

At a Vegas Casino or the like there are a myriad of regulations in place to ensure the gaming is fair.

At a dog-fight there is no such oversight.

[burn_baby_burn]

Plus, look at the kind of person that would participate in dog fighting. I'm sure there are ties or associations will all sorts of organized crime. Maybe Vick could get friendly with a member of La Cosa Nostra. Let him know that he isn't feeling 100% or that his team has had a bad week at practice and everyone is ignoring the coach. He could leak inside information to illegal gamblers. Maybe he didn't bet on football or point shave. But he sure opened himself up to that sort of sucpision.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Thats where I disagree.

At a Vegas Casino or the like there are a myriad of regulations in place to ensure the gaming is fair.

At a dog-fight there is no such oversight.

I think part of the reason that pro sports are so leary of their players becoming involved in any sort of illegal gambling, even if not on their own sport, is because of the willingness of that industry to compromise the integrity of any sport: some guy involved in a pro sport (let's say, hypothetically, an NBA referee) makes a bet with an illegal gambling organization. He loses some money. He bets more, trying to get himself out of debt, but continues to lose. Pretty soon, he's owing an incredible amount, and the organization approaches him with a scenario to get out of debt: influence the scores on a couple games. It could easily happen in dog-fighting that Vick ends up losing a huge amount of money to someone else in the industry. While Vick doesn't bet on the NFL, maybe his creditors do, and they offer to let him work his debt off. That's the worst case scenario that pro-sports leagues are afraid of.

[transplant99]

Plus, look at the kind of person that would participate in dog fighting.

Violent thugs...agreed. Let me introduce you to Pacman Jones, Chris Henry, Rae Carruth, etc etc etc. Its the nature of the sport...it is one that relies on violence as part of the game, and that alone will attract some rather unsavory characters.

Maybe Vick could get friendly with a member of La Cosa Nostra. Let him know that he isn't feeling 100% or that his team has had a bad week at practice and everyone is ignoring the coach. He could leak inside information to illegal gamblers. Maybe he didn't bet on football or point shave. But he sure opened himself up to that sort of sucpision.

So "could" every player/coach/referee in the game.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So "could" every player/coach/referee in the game.

But Vick is know to participate in illegal gambling on an illegal sport. Any other player that is caught participating in illegal gambling should be banned as well.

[Sylvanfan]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7...PHCP&GT1=10347

NBA player Stephan Marbury defends Vick. Says dog fighting is no different than shooting deer. Ummmmm okay I don't know what to say to that. I'm not into hunting myself, but the animals grow up in the Wild and people hunt them to eat as food. Not exactly something I'm big on myself, but seems a hell of a lot different than forcing dogs from their birth into dog fighting..Although maybe those game farms that people hunt on could be somewhat relevent.

Also some interesting comments from teammates. Sounds like he has two guys backing him a bit, but another Warrick Dunn seems to want nothing to do with him. I wonder how this will divide the team itself this year.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7...PHCP&GT1=10347

NBA player Stephan Marbury defends Vick. Says dog fighting is no different than shooting deer. Ummmmm okay I don't know what to say to that. I'm not into hunting myself, but the animals grow up in the Wild and people hunt them to eat as food. Not exactly something I'm big on myself, but seems a hell of a lot different than forcing dogs from their birth into dog fighting..Although maybe those game farms that people hunt on could be somewhat relevent.

Also some interesting comments from teammates. Sounds like he has two guys backing him a bit, but another Warrick Dunn seems to want nothing to do with him. I wonder how this will divide the team itself this year.

I saw the Marbury interview on TSN yesterday. What a tool. He also called it a sport.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Today, with a pile of dead dogs and criminal charges he has agreed to plead guilty to, Michael Vick has no ownership of the sporting world. Worse, he has no ownership of his future, having sold that and his reputation down the river in exchange for some low-class bloodsport thrills. He's all but helpless.

Supporters dwindling, teammates distancing, friends rolling for the feds, ownership seemingly ready to move on without him, league seemingly ready to exile him, justice system ready to incarcerate him -- it's been a stunning study in self-sabotage.

It's a stunning commentary on how people are numbed to the death of a human, aka the perception of a murderer, but won't tolerate cruelty imposed on what is considered a pet.

The pet industry is $41 billion in annual sales in America alone.

Cowperson

Numbed to the death of an adult.

My reaction to this is the same as to the cruelty towrds a child. It is someone who cannot defend themselves against those that should know better.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

It's a stunning commentary on how people are numbed to the death of a human, aka the perception of a murderer, but won't tolerate cruelty imposed on what is considered a pet.

The pet industry is $41 billion in annual sales in America alone.

Cowperson

The two really aren't comparable. It's not like he can train two people to rip the throuts out of each other with their teeth. If he'd done that, I'm sure people would be just as disgusted.

[burn_baby_burn]

An individual will usually only get 1 deer tag per season. And in certain area's you need your name to be drawn to receive a tag. MicK Vick was killing numerous dogs every year.

I think the feds need to ask Marbury a few questions. Does he participate or bet on dog fighting?

[SteveToms]

Also Thursday night, a report on ESPN.com quotes an ESPN source saying Vick will not admit to killing dogs or gambling on dogfights when he enters a guilty plea in a Richmond, Va., federal court Monday.
The source told ESPN that Vick's defence team met with federal lawyers Thursday afternoon to determine the ''summary of facts'' to which Vick will plead. But the source says Vick maintains he never killed dogs and never gambled on a dog fight. The source said the Atlanta Falcons quarterback will plead guilty to the charge of interstate commerce for the purpose of dogfighting.

Read more

http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/news_story/?ID=216760&hubname=

[CaptainCrunch]

I have my doubts on the above story. After all of the pre-trial hype and threats I doubt that the feds will drop the charges related to Vicks conduct concerning the animals, and the illegal gambling.

If they do then this would be considered a major and dramatic loss of face by the feds, and the explaination would have to center around the charges being dropped due to lost evidence and not that Vick got a better deal because he's a rich, black athlete.