10-13-2004, 10:04 PM
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#41
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Market Mall Food Court
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Quote:
Originally posted by KevanGuy+Oct 14 2004, 02:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KevanGuy @ Oct 14 2004, 02:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Bertuzzied@Oct 13 2004, 08:13 PM
Can anyone say DRAFT in the US?
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Do you honestly believe that or are you just being ignorant? [/b][/quote]
Hey what would you expect when you elect a war president.
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10-13-2004, 10:08 PM
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#42
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Commie Referee
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Small town, B.C.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cowboy@Oct 13 2004, 09:20 PM
Bush, I believe, has to control his facial expressions, he looks like a kid getting made fun of in front of the classroom. He also needs to brush up on his debating skills, more work on it may also cure the uncomfortable look he had on his face for the majority of the night.
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That's how I feel in a nutshell.
Whether you're a Bush supporter or not, you have to admit, he is fun to watch!
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10-13-2004, 10:15 PM
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#43
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clinching Party
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cowboy@Oct 13 2004, 09:20 PM
Many of the questions were set for him to fail...economy, health care, rich vs. poor. I find that debates usually do fall in favor of the more liberal.
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Now come on -- it was a domestic policy debate. If they weren't going to talk about health care and the economy, what were they going to talk about? Shoe size?
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10-13-2004, 10:17 PM
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#44
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Franchise Player
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Man I'm as disheartened by many comments here as I am with the debate and campaigning in the States. Thunderball, what can I say....
By any real sense Kerry takes it by shear content and answering the questions and actual policy. Bush only takes it if you aren't listening to the words and are subsrcibing to many other ways of deciding, such as how many times you can; like a six year old, bash your hand on the podium, I guess that's strength. Or how many times you can avoid a question perhaps means you're cunning. Kerry actually speaks to each issue, Bush responds to what Kerry says.
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10-13-2004, 10:20 PM
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#45
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Oct 13 2004, 10:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Oct 13 2004, 10:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cowboy@Oct 13 2004, 09:20 PM
Many of the questions were set for him to fail...economy, health care, rich vs. poor. I find that debates usually do fall in favor of the more liberal.
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Now come on -- it was a domestic policy debate. If they weren't going to talk about health care and the economy, what were they going to talk about? Shoe size? [/b][/quote]
haha. good point, I don't know what shoe size Bush wears but it certainly doesn't fit me. Oh and I didn't mean to put Economy in there, Republicans economies are usually pretty good, but yeah, Bush got killed on something he is supposed to be strong on.
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10-13-2004, 10:24 PM
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#46
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Director of the HFBI
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flame On@Oct 13 2004, 09:17 PM
Man I'm as disheartened by many comments here as I am with the debate and campaigning in the States. Thunderball, what can I say....
By any real sense Kerry takes it by shear content and answering the questions and actual policy. Bush only takes it if you aren't listening to the words and are subsrcibing to many other ways of deciding, such as how many times you can; like a six year old, bash your hand on the podium, I guess that's strength. Or how many times you can avoid a question perhaps means you're cunning. Kerry actually speaks to each issue, Bush responds to what Kerry says.
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Shear content? Kerry has always stated he has a plan. What is his plan? I am still waiting for what Kerry's plan is.
Straight from every debate: Kerry has voted one way for the past 20 years, yet when it comes to telling the American people, he is saying what they want to hear. That he can balance the budget. How? I don't know, thats part of his "master plan" that he is keeping to himself.
When asked about the flu vaccine shortage. Bush answered the question, and gave a clear precise explaination. Kerry just talked americans loosing health care. What difference does it make if 5 million americans lost their health care if there isn't enough of the vaccine to go around? That is one example that stands out.
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"Opinions are like demo tapes, and I don't want to hear yours" -- Stephen Colbert
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10-13-2004, 10:39 PM
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#47
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It's not easy being green!
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the tubes to Vancouver Island
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Quote:
Originally posted by arsenal@Oct 13 2004, 10:24 PM
Straight from every debate: Kerry has voted one way for the past 20 years, yet when it comes to telling the American people, he is saying what they want to hear. That he can balance the budget. How? I don't know, thats part of his "master plan" that he is keeping to himself.
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This is how you win elections, people want to be told what they want to hear, not what is actually going to happen. Everyone knows that!
I find it curious how much can relate to the "No child left behind" program.. :P
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Who is in charge of this product and why haven't they been fired yet?
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10-13-2004, 10:40 PM
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#48
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally posted by arsenal+Oct 14 2004, 04:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (arsenal @ Oct 14 2004, 04:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flame On@Oct 13 2004, 09:17 PM
Man I'm as disheartened by many comments here as I am with the debate and campaigning in the States. Thunderball, what can I say....
By any real sense Kerry takes it by shear content and answering the questions and actual policy. Bush only takes it if you aren't listening to the words and are subsrcibing to many other ways of deciding, such as how many times you can; like a six year old, bash your hand on the podium, I guess that's strength. Or how many times you can avoid a question perhaps means you're cunning. Kerry actually speaks to each issue, Bush responds to what Kerry says.
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Shear content? Kerry has always stated he has a plan. What is his plan? I am still waiting for what Kerry's plan is.
Straight from every debate: Kerry has voted one way for the past 20 years, yet when it comes to telling the American people, he is saying what they want to hear. That he can balance the budget. How? I don't know, thats part of his "master plan" that he is keeping to himself.
When asked about the flu vaccine shortage. Bush answered the question, and gave a clear precise explaination. Kerry just talked americans loosing health care. What difference does it make if 5 million americans lost their health care if there isn't enough of the vaccine to go around? That is one example that stands out. [/b][/quote]
I heard Kerry's plan. Perhaps you have too much earwax. He's going to roll back Bush's tax plan to the top whatever percent. Give or take.
Bush just said that a shipment had spoiled form the UK (first blame Canada next the UK) and then nothing. Oh that's right he flip flopped and said he's working with canada, so now we're good enough to work with....he's an ass.
What was Bush's clear consise way of balancing his budget again? Please recap it.
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10-13-2004, 11:15 PM
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#49
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flame On+Oct 13 2004, 10:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flame On @ Oct 13 2004, 10:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Quote:
Originally posted by arsenal@Oct 14 2004, 04:24 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Flame On
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Quote:
@Oct 13 2004, 09:17 PM
Man I'm as disheartened by many comments here as I am with the debate and campaigning in the States. Thunderball, what can I say....
By any real sense Kerry takes it by shear content and answering the questions and actual policy.# Bush only takes it if you aren't listening to the words and are subsrcibing to many other ways of deciding, such as how many times you can; like a six year old, bash your hand on the podium, I guess that's strength.# Or how many times you can avoid a question perhaps means you're cunning.# Kerry actually speaks to each issue, Bush responds to what Kerry says.
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Shear content? Kerry has always stated he has a plan. What is his plan? I am still waiting for what Kerry's plan is.
Straight from every debate: Kerry has voted one way for the past 20 years, yet when it comes to telling the American people, he is saying what they want to hear. That he can balance the budget. How? I don't know, thats part of his "master plan" that he is keeping to himself.
When asked about the flu vaccine shortage. Bush answered the question, and gave a clear precise explaination. Kerry just talked americans loosing health care. What difference does it make if 5 million americans lost their health care if there isn't enough of the vaccine to go around? That is one example that stands out.
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I heard Kerry's plan. Perhaps you have too much earwax. He's going to roll back Bush's tax plan to the top whatever percent. Give or take.
Bush just said that a shipment had spoiled form the UK (first blame Canada next the UK) and then nothing. Oh that's right he flip flopped and said he's working with canada, so now we're good enough to work with....he's an ass.
What was Bush's clear consise way of balancing his budget again? Please recap it. [/b][/quote]
Well, you do know that "top 1%" income earners tax hike is also gonna affect the majority of small businesses which hurts job creation and the American economy a lot more than Kerry wants to admit.
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10-13-2004, 11:18 PM
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#50
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Director of the HFBI
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Calgary
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He is going to roll back the tax cut for the people making $200,000 + per year. And he is going to tax the middle class. Thats what I heard.
Would you agree that the majority of the people in the US making $200,000+ per year are business owners, or high ranking excutives of major corporations. The point of the tax cut was to give more money back to these businesses so that they can put more money into their businesses. So that they don't outsource to other countries, and leaves more jobs in the US.
Rolling back that tax cut, and then taxing those making less than $200,000 / year, sure it probably will reduce the deficit a bit. But it could start up another recesion, as more people will have less money. They are not going to spend as much money. What Bush did was stop a recession from becomming a depression. Yes he has run up the deficit, but it eventually will turn around.
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"Opinions are like demo tapes, and I don't want to hear yours" -- Stephen Colbert
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10-13-2004, 11:31 PM
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#51
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clinching Party
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Quote:
Originally posted by arsenal+Oct 13 2004, 10:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (arsenal @ Oct 13 2004, 10:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flame On@Oct 13 2004, 09:17 PM
Man I'm as disheartened by many comments here as I am with the debate and campaigning in the States. Thunderball, what can I say....
By any real sense Kerry takes it by shear content and answering the questions and actual policy. Bush only takes it if you aren't listening to the words and are subsrcibing to many other ways of deciding, such as how many times you can; like a six year old, bash your hand on the podium, I guess that's strength. Or how many times you can avoid a question perhaps means you're cunning. Kerry actually speaks to each issue, Bush responds to what Kerry says.
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Shear content? Kerry has always stated he has a plan. What is his plan? I am still waiting for what Kerry's plan is.
Straight from every debate: Kerry has voted one way for the past 20 years, yet when it comes to telling the American people, he is saying what they want to hear. That he can balance the budget. How? I don't know, thats part of his "master plan" that he is keeping to himself.
When asked about the flu vaccine shortage. Bush answered the question, and gave a clear precise explaination. Kerry just talked americans loosing health care. What difference does it make if 5 million americans lost their health care if there isn't enough of the vaccine to go around? That is one example that stands out. [/b][/quote]
It sounds like you watched the debate -- he said he voted for a balanced budget when Reagan was the President. What's so hard to understand about that?
And all this "he says he has a plan, but he doesn't have a plan". It's a debate for crying out loud, not a powerpoint presentation. If you want to see a plan, go to his website.
Regarding balanced budgets, you want Kerry to prove he can do it but you don't hold Bush up to the same scrutiny even though he's obviously blown it.
I wouldn't try bringing up that flu vaccine business as a point for Bush. Try as anyone might, they can't blame a flu vaccine shortage on the liberal Senator from Massachussets. Although, Bush's first reaction was pretty funny -- "the British messed it up"!
5 million people losing health care is a hell of a lot more serious than a flu vaccine shortage. What you are saying is pretty much akin to "it's okay the house burned down, the owner is lactose-intolerant".
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10-13-2004, 11:58 PM
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#52
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Crash and Bang Winger
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: san diego
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why would bush impose a draft when he could just add a few divisions to the army like kerry's brilliant idea?
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10-14-2004, 12:07 AM
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#53
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Director of the HFBI
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Calgary
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And they can't blame the vaccine shortage on the Bush administration as well.
As far as holding Bush to the same scrutiny as Kerry on the economics. Your right, I didn't. That was one time that I haven't. There are some people that support Kerry's position, yet do not hold him to the same scrutiny as they hold Bush.
From John Kerry's Website:
Create Good-Paying Jobs
As president, John Kerry will cut taxes for businesses that create jobs here in America instead of moving them overseas. John Kerry and John Edwards will also stand up for workers by enforcing our trade agreements.
In the debate he says he is going to roll back that tax cut
Make Washington Live Within A Budget
John Kerry will cut the deficit in half during his first four years in office. He will end corporate welfare as we know it, roll back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and impose a real cap to keep spending in check. And when John Kerry puts forward a new idea, he'll tell you how he's going to pay for it.
But you just said you where going to give a tax cut to the people that run those businesses..
What is the cap he is talking about? 1 Billion, 10 Billioin, 5 Trillion?
Cut Health Care Premiums By Up To $1,000. Under the Kerry-Edwards plan, employers will benefit from offering their employees quality care with choices. By helping out with certain high-cost cases, the Kerry-Edwards plan will cut premiums by up to $1,000 per year for America's families.
Wow, thats great, how you going to cut it by $1000 / year for American families?
From Bush's Website:
In a second term, the President has made it a priority to lock in these gains by:
Making the Tax Relief Permanent - Many of the tax cuts - including the new, low 10 percent tax bracket, the reduction in the marriage penalty, the doubling of the child tax credit, the phase-out of the death tax, and the increase in small business expensing - are set to expire. This tax relief must be made permanent so families and businesses can plan for the future with confidence.
Making the Tax Code Fairer, Simpler, and Pro-Growth - President Bush will work with Congress to make the tax code simpler for taxpayers, encourage saving and investment, and improve the economy's ability to create jobs and raise wages
Take for it what you will. There are 2 views. Both are rather vague.
Edit: Added last sentance.
__________________
"Opinions are like demo tapes, and I don't want to hear yours" -- Stephen Colbert
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10-14-2004, 04:57 AM
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#54
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Yokohama
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cowboy@Oct 14 2004, 12:20 PM
Well I didn't get a chance to see the first debate. I thought the second debate's format played into Bush's favor, seems more personal.
Bush kind of got killed in this last debate, but I don't believe it is all his fault. Many of the questions were set for him to fail...economy, health care, rich vs. poor. I find that debates usually do fall in favor of the more liberal. However as we know, it is easier for liberal look better because many of their policies pull on the heart strings of the people. However, Republicans/Conservatives seem to have a very realistic view, and it doesn't always come across as the fair, and morally right thing to do.
Bush, I believe, has to control his facial expressions, he looks like a kid getting made fun of in front of the classroom. He also needs to brush up on his debating skills, more work on it may also cure the uncomfortable look he had on his face for the majority of the night.
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The way I see it is he got killed is because he screwed all of that up. Pretty simple really. As they say, his (horrible) record speaks for itself.
Take away the bluster, peel over the spin and the rotting stinking facts are all that remain.
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10-14-2004, 09:07 AM
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#55
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally posted by arsenal@Oct 14 2004, 06:07 AM
And they can't blame the vaccine shortage on the Bush administration as well.
As far as holding Bush to the same scrutiny as Kerry on the economics. Your right, I didn't. That was one time that I haven't. There are some people that support Kerry's position, yet do not hold him to the same scrutiny as they hold Bush.
From John Kerry's Website:
Create Good-Paying Jobs
As president, John Kerry will cut taxes for businesses that create jobs here in America instead of moving them overseas. John Kerry and John Edwards will also stand up for workers by enforcing our trade agreements.
In the debate he says he is going to roll back that tax cut 
Make Washington Live Within A Budget
John Kerry will cut the deficit in half during his first four years in office. He will end corporate welfare as we know it, roll back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and impose a real cap to keep spending in check. And when John Kerry puts forward a new idea, he'll tell you how he's going to pay for it.
But you just said you where going to give a tax cut to the people that run those businesses..
What is the cap he is talking about? 1 Billion, 10 Billioin, 5 Trillion?
Cut Health Care Premiums By Up To $1,000. Under the Kerry-Edwards plan, employers will benefit from offering their employees quality care with choices. By helping out with certain high-cost cases, the Kerry-Edwards plan will cut premiums by up to $1,000 per year for America's families.
Wow, thats great, how you going to cut it by $1000 / year for American families?
From Bush's Website:
In a second term, the President has made it a priority to lock in these gains by:
Making the Tax Relief Permanent - Many of the tax cuts - including the new, low 10 percent tax bracket, the reduction in the marriage penalty, the doubling of the child tax credit, the phase-out of the death tax, and the increase in small business expensing - are set to expire. This tax relief must be made permanent so families and businesses can plan for the future with confidence.
Making the Tax Code Fairer, Simpler, and Pro-Growth - President Bush will work with Congress to make the tax code simpler for taxpayers, encourage saving and investment, and improve the economy's ability to create jobs and raise wages
Take for it what you will. There are 2 views. Both are rather vague.
Edit: Added last sentance.
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arsenal, you are aware there's more than one tax aren't you? Rolling back Bush's universal tax gives them a pot of money. CNN and another big news source seem to believe the figures.
Small businesses are charged taxes in their own rights. By giving dedicated tax breaks to small business it will help them out.
The big tax roll back has nothing to do with other taxes, closing loopholes, or other issues that have clouded your mind.
Flu shots from the UK can be blamed on Bush as he obviously outsourced them to provide that. The Dems can't be blamed for either happening.
Further, "Making the Tax code fairer, simpler and pro-growth" are just words. That's not even a plan. You may disagree with Kerry but he states solid plans, not BS.
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10-14-2004, 06:53 PM
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#56
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheCommodoreAfro+Oct 14 2004, 04:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheCommodoreAfro @ Oct 14 2004, 04:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cowboy@Oct 14 2004, 12:20 PM
Well I didn't get a chance to see the first debate. I thought the second debate's format played into Bush's favor, seems more personal.
Bush kind of got killed in this last debate, but I don't believe it is all his fault. Many of the questions were set for him to fail...economy, health care, rich vs. poor. I find that debates usually do fall in favor of the more liberal. However as we know, it is easier for liberal look better because many of their policies pull on the heart strings of the people. However, Republicans/Conservatives seem to have a very realistic view, and it doesn't always come across as the fair, and morally right thing to do.
Bush, I believe, has to control his facial expressions, he looks like a kid getting made fun of in front of the classroom. He also needs to brush up on his debating skills, more work on it may also cure the uncomfortable look he had on his face for the majority of the night.
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The way I see it is he got killed is because he screwed all of that up. Pretty simple really. As they say, his (horrible) record speaks for itself.
Take away the bluster, peel over the spin and the rotting stinking facts are all that remain. [/b][/quote]
Yes but Republicans tend to screw all that up, everybody knows that. Its like saying our conservatives are going to have better plan for the homeless....when they cut funding.
Conservative leadership cuts social programs, it is part of their social policy.
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10-14-2004, 08:17 PM
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#57
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Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Crowsnest Pass
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Quote:
Originally posted by arsenal+Oct 14 2004, 04:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (arsenal @ Oct 14 2004, 04:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flame On@Oct 13 2004, 09:17 PM
Man I'm as disheartened by many comments here as I am with the debate and campaigning in the States. Thunderball, what can I say....
By any real sense Kerry takes it by shear content and answering the questions and actual policy.# Bush only takes it if you aren't listening to the words and are subsrcibing to many other ways of deciding, such as how many times you can; like a six year old, bash your hand on the podium, I guess that's strength.# Or how many times you can avoid a question perhaps means you're cunning.# Kerry actually speaks to each issue, Bush responds to what Kerry says.
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Shear content? Kerry has always stated he has a plan. What is his plan? I am still waiting for what Kerry's plan is.
Straight from every debate: Kerry has voted one way for the past 20 years, yet when it comes to telling the American people, he is saying what they want to hear. That he can balance the budget. How? I don't know, thats part of his "master plan" that he is keeping to himself.
When asked about the flu vaccine shortage. Bush answered the question, and gave a clear precise explaination. Kerry just talked americans loosing health care. What difference does it make if 5 million americans lost their health care if there isn't enough of the vaccine to go around? That is one example that stands out. [/b][/quote]
You are not going to get detailed plans in a 90 minute debate where each candidate is limited to two minute answers. Detailed plans are here if you care to read it:
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/economy/
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/economic_plan.pdf
I'm sure there are similar detailed plans on the Bush web-site too. In our generation of short attention spans, very few people bother to study these plans.
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