Practice Notes Feb 23

[Geeoff]

There are not that many facepunchers in the league anymore and I feel like they are actually kind of expensive to acquire. Like, "he cost THAT much?" type of trades or UFA signings

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

There are not that many facepunchers in the league anymore and I feel like they are actually kind of expensive to acquire. Like, "he cost THAT much?" type of trades or UFA signings

I still feel like they aren't a significant deterrent. On ice stuff happens in the moment. Hockey players don't really weigh consequences much.

[metroneck]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I liked that movie.

It's a classic depends on how literal you are when watching a flick flick.

I put it in the so bad it’s good category. Admittedly, I’ve probably seen it more than once.

Showgirls on the other hand is the only movie I have ever walked out on. Considering that it had b00bs, that pretty amazing.

[Toonage]

Most goons are never on the ice with the player's they're supposed to protect or against those they're meant to deter. Looks at Reaves. Pointless.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Why do you care about Murray's money?

Because his spending outside the cap is finite.

I’m sure the organization has a budget, and even if it’s flexible, every million spent on a guy in the minors is a million not being spent on buyouts, training facilities, scouting, physio/massage therapists, skills coaches, etc. Things which I argue would help the team win more than having a millionaire depth grinder in the AHL.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Yeah, you can bury his cap, but that’s still real money for the team.

Beecher will be 25 to start the season, and his career high production in senior hockey is 23 points.

I hope Conroy can find a better use of nearly a million bucks of real world money, other than giving a 1-way contract to a guy who is replacement level at best.

I think rebuilding NHL teams like options.

$900K for a serviceable 12-13 forward with size and draft pedigree isn't spending unwisely in my mind.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think rebuilding NHL teams like options.

$900K for a serviceable 12-13 forward with size and draft pedigree isn't spending unwisely in my mind.

I think a rebuilding team should look for upside, and I just don’t see any here.

Draft pedigree isn’t much of a crutch to lean on in a guy’s D+8 season, when he hasn’t been able to deliver those goods at any level above the USHL.

I had no problem with the waiver claim, I think filling this roster spot with a reclamation project is exactly what the team should be doing.

But based on what I’ve seen of this player, I think the team should offer him a firm handshake at the end of the season, maybe a framed jersey or something, and move on.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Because his spending outside the cap is finite.

I’m sure the organization has a budget, and even if it’s flexible, every million spent on a guy in the minors is a million not being spent on buyouts, training facilities, scouting, physio/massage therapists, skills coaches, etc. Things which I argue would help the team win more than having a millionaire depth grinder in the AHL.

The budgets are likely separate line items and don't eat into each other. Anyway, Kirkland's salary is also one way, so it makes almost no difference.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think rebuilding NHL teams like options.

$900K for a serviceable 12-13 forward with size and draft pedigree isn't spending unwisely in my mind.

Sure, but as always, you want to give roster spots to young talented prospects coming up in the system. Beecher is young, but is he talented?

The only reason you keep him is if you don't have any forwards in the minors who could use some NHL playing time. In my mind, the Flames have several guys who could use that playing time to see if they can reach the next level. 4-5 games doesn't work very well. You need to give a guy 15-20 to show if he has potential, just like they did with Klapka recently. Now he seems like a guy that has a ton of value in different roles on the team.

I would hope that they might leave a spot open for one of the younger centers to come in and show they can do the job, like Morton or King. I also think they really need to give Kerins that 15-20 games to see if he can take his skills to an NHL level. In my mind, because he's produced so well at lower levels, you have to give him a real shot before you decide he's not an NHLer. I don't think they've really done that yet, and while he hasn't been amazing in NHL games, he hasn't looked that out of place either.

In short, Beecher has NHL size and some abilities on the PK and faceoff dot. Other than that, he doesn't add much, not even physicality despite his size. He doesn't win a lot of puck battles, doesn't have any real scoring skills, and isn't an amazing skater. Maybe he comes back and looks better, but there was a reason he was on waivers in the first place.

[Bingo]

If a prospect usurps him you send him to the AHL. If they don't you use the failed first rounder as your fourth line center or popcorn muncher instead of a kid with upside.

If they have a better option then that's fine too.

But's an easy organization to build options.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If a prospect usurps him you send him to the AHL. If they don't you use the failed first rounder as your fourth line center or popcorn muncher instead of a kid with upside.

If they have a better option then that's fine too.

But's an easy organization to build options.

I think this is kind of similar to the bringing PTOs to training camp discussion. Conroy himself mentioned that he thinks the young guys get a lot more competitive when they see a spot open, and a clear opportunity to make the team.

So IMO there's a case to be made for keeping a spot open for the best Wranglers even if they're not ready.

[Finger Cookin]

The practice line up on off days, and the ensuing unending debate about which replacement level player is the true best replacement level player to use on the 4th line or 3rd pair of a 29th place team, is a timeless source of amusement during the season.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I liked that movie.

It's a classic depends on how literal you are when watching a flick flick.

That movie scared the absolute #### out of me as a kid. Great flick

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Sure, but as always, you want to give roster spots to young talented prospects coming up in the system. Beecher is young, but is he talented?

The only reason you keep him is if you don't have any forwards in the minors who could use some NHL playing time. In my mind, the Flames have several guys who could use that playing time to see if they can reach the next level. 4-5 games doesn't work very well. You need to give a guy 15-20 to show if he has potential, just like they did with Klapka recently. Now he seems like a guy that has a ton of value in different roles on the team.

I would hope that they might leave a spot open for one of the younger centers to come in and show they can do the job, like Morton or King. I also think they really need to give Kerins that 15-20 games to see if he can take his skills to an NHL level. In my mind, because he's produced so well at lower levels, you have to give him a real shot before you decide he's not an NHLer. I don't think they've really done that yet, and while he hasn't been amazing in NHL games, he hasn't looked that out of place either.

In short, Beecher has NHL size and some abilities on the PK and faceoff dot. Other than that, he doesn't add much, not even physicality despite his size. He doesn't win a lot of puck battles, doesn't have any real scoring skills, and isn't an amazing skater. Maybe he comes back and looks better, but there was a reason he was on waivers in the first place.

If you are keeping a spot open for a younger C, Morton is 2 years older than Beecher and King is the same age (and not doing very well in the AHL). You can make an argument for Kevin’s I guess, but IMO Beecher is a better bet to improve. He’s a better skater than Kerins for sure. He might just need some steady time on the Flames. And I’m not sure Kerins can play 4th line.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't think 4th line minutes is being fair as far as 'opportunity' goes. I don't judge any prospect who gets called up and plays 5-8 minutes on the 4th line, other than maybe to see how fast he can skate. That's a tough position to put him into - hard to get into the game while not getting a regular rotation. Now, if he is a 4th-liner type, then that's perfectly fine. Giving a top 6 player a game on the 4th line is saying to me: "We don't believe in this kid, but we want to be seen as a place known for giving opportunities." It just isn't a real opportunity. (Oh, and Kerins has had real opportunity, and I bet will have it again).

So who is he blocking?

Kirkland - 29 years old. 50GP in the NHL. 6'3", 183. I like he plays with some pop sometimes, and he is great on the shootout. Great tweener, IMO, with a ceiling of a 4th liner.

Morton - 26 years old, 4GP in the NHL. 6'0", 185. He has had spurts where I liked his game, but that's essentially all he has had. I don't see an NHL player here, at least not without a development curve. He is already 26, but still some room to develop. Maybe he develops into a 4th liner one day.

King - 24 years old. 5'10, 185. Calgary kid with the best stats in the NCAA out of the bunch. Smallest, so something to think about for a 4th line type. However, given his NCAA resume, plus how he looked in preseason, there may be more than a 4th liner here, and I do believe he has the highest ceiling of the bunch, even if it hasn't translated into point production yet in the AHL.

Beecher - 24 years old (and the youngest of them all surprisingly), and the biggest at 6'3, 220. 155 GP in the NHL - that stands out for sure, right? Hopefully he 'pops' (10G 15A, PK'er, strong in the dot, and hard to play against). I think he is a placeholder right now with some potential upside still. He is not a block. Right now, he is a small speed-bump that you would hope other prospects/players would easily jump over, right? So there really isn't an argument to be had here, at least IMO.


Now, if we want to debate whether or not a 4th line tour of duty spot is an actual opportunity to anyone other than a 4th liner, then that's a different argument altogether. I don't see it that way personally. I see the 4th line only for 4th liners, or demoted in-game players who aren't having a great game. That's it. I don't even want to see Stromgren on this line unless he gets called up, starts on one of the first 3 lines, but isn't playing well so he is sheltered on the 4th out of necessity. I just don't think starting a kid on the 4th line - who isn't a 4th liner type - is an opportunity.