[News Roundup] Canada Day: Conroy talks

[NegativeSpace]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

My point is Treliving didn't really have a plan. I don't know, I remember a lot of people we're skeptical and didn't like this signing,

Further to my point was Treliving made the same mistake (he is making with Tanev) when he signed Troy Bouwer and James Neil the more I think about it I'm not so sure Conroy initially wouldn't have made the same mistake, He was still trying to sign guys to long-term contracts before he decided trade them for picks, but that process created an avenue where Conroy has to realize something's broken.

We were kind of forced into this re-tool by players who didn't want to stay. My point basically is that Treliving has a habit of signing his long-term contracts the tend to cripple, I think we're going to start seeing league wide trend of signing players with some skill to short term show me deals to ensure that they show up to play. This version of Conroy would never have signed Huberdeau to a long-term loaded contract.

I don’t agree that Treliving didn’t have a lot plan. He identified his core and tried to supplement them. He made the wrong call on pulling the plug on rebuild and going in with the core with the benefit of hindsight. He was okay letting non core players walk if he could replace them through trades and FA.

The retool with the Tkachuk trade has been beaten to death.

I also don’t agree that Conroy doesn’t have a plan and has been forced into the rebuild. His statements have been the same from day 1. He placed value on the players and made offers to them. If the players wouldn’t then they were moved for assets. That is a stark difference from previous regime. A good player under a fair contract also has value that can be moved.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Good to see and hear the plan for the next few years and that he stuck to it in the draft and in July 1.

Now if only there was a fast forward button to bypass watching this season's games. Or the skip a season like in a simulator. This season is going to be rough.

The forward group is going to be more or less like last season. Powerplay should be better.

Defence is a patchwork quilt and goaltending will probably be a rollercoaster.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ViKen

I think you mean Treliving won't be there for the entire term. As a player, would you think Tanev would walk away and retire in 3 years leaving 3 years remaining (about $13M)?

So many fans like myself called Tre a wizard but he was all talk and really set us back a ton. Most overrated GM and horrible at drafting and development. It just never seemed like a priority to value higher picks. Instead, constantly trading away picks to take chances on retreads / UFAs.

CC has brought a refreshing approach and breathed hope into the Flames and us fans. Pray that it pans out.

I think Tanev will LTIRetire.

Any other player and I might also think there was a handshake deal where there would be a retirement or buyout at the end.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The people who didn't like the signing were definitely in the minority (I think they were more people who said the trade was a bust IF Huberdeau wasn't signed long term).

I don't think Treliving is making a big mistake with Tanev. He's making a bet that Tanev won't be there for the whole term. Tanev will be worth the money for the first part of that deal, unlike Neal and Brouwer.

I was in the wait and see camp, but some of those long-term contracts were for players that hadn't proven anything within our own organization. No proven chemistry, no commitment. Some of these players just mailed it in well couldn't live up to the hype. The question isn't whether the fans agreed with it at the time or not; I think Treliving's approach to signing long-term contracts to players that didn't work out hurt the organization moving forward, especially being stuck with those contracts.You have Treliving bargained hard with our own guys, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sentiment there when new guys were brought in. For the record I think Kadri has been an excellent signing, I do like Conway's approach to short-term show me contracts, and maybe extending them if you like what you see.

For the comment someone made about Huberdeau not signing unless he got term. We could have signed "them" to show me deals with a good priced contract, there is nothing to indicate that that was even offered.

Conroy seems to recognize some of these failures and is taking steps to fix it. I'm not convinced Conroy would have taken the same approach as Treliving regarding Huberdeau, and even if he would have I don't think he would now.

About Tanev, I think Tre is still taking a risk, and even if the player decides not to retire there's going to be a drop off at some point. Tre's approach and some of the risks he was willing to take hurt the Flames organization. Whether or not some fans supported him at the time really isn't a good excuse.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

For the comment someone made about Huberdeau not signing unless he got term. We could have signed them to show me deal with a good priced contract, there is nothing to indicate that that was even offered.

Why would Huberdeau or Weegar ever sign a show me contract given their respective ages. I was in the sign or trade camp, too bad they agreed to contracts lol.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Why would Huberdeau or Weegar ever sign a show me contract given their respective ages. I was in the sign or trade camp, too bad they agreed to contracts lol.

I think we are going to see more short-term contracts in the future players can still get a good priced contract and see if they do want to extend.

I don't know, I'm not certain Huberdeau really wanted to be here, but the money was offered, and even if he did, it was a mistake that shouldn't have happened. Again I'm just trying to point out that Treliving's has a certain style of management that might not work in Toronto and that we have a better GM. I'm not interested in justifying the Huberdeau contract, I still believe it was a mistake.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Why would Huberdeau or Weegar ever sign a show me contract given their respective ages. I was in the sign or trade camp, too bad they agreed to contracts lol.

Weegar has a great contract

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Weegar has a great contract

Yeah, his is fine but I kind of feel like it was either both or neither. I'd take neither.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I think we are going to see more short-term contracts in the future players can still get a good priced contract and see if they do want to extend

Nah, look at free agent deals. Not a lot of sort term deals on desirable free agents. Matthews signed 'short term' deals that will let him sign an 8 year deal that will take him into his 30s.

[dammage79]

Hindsight being 20/20 always and forever. Yeah it would have been nice to have Huberdeau prove his next contract and I think Conroy has been alluding to that all offseason.

He's been speaking openly about long term contracts and getting stuck under them with no way out. You can almost guarantee he's talking about Huberdeaus contract.

But I also think Conroy know when his windows are for contract signings. When they're going out there shopping to round off a roster thats in their window to compete consistently, he will open up the checkbook and throw some term around. But not during the building process, unless it's a core player they're bringing up.

I can see parts of his plan and some of the stages he's set for himself. It's smart.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yeah, his is fine but I kind of feel like it was either both or neither. I'd take neither.

Weegar is tradeable at least.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Nah, look at free agent deals. Not a lot of sort term deals on desirable free agents. Matthews signed 'short term' deals that will let him sign an 8 year deal that will take him into his 30s.

Conroy just said he's going to start signing some players players to 2-3 years deals. If you're signing a home grown player to long-term contract, somebody that's been within your organization for a while at least you know what you're getting.

Signing players outside the organization to Big deals unless you know for sure what you're getting it's a risk. Treliving just lost, two good players so I could see his incentive for fixing the hole left behind.

With Treliving it was one bad contract after another, Kardi was a concern initially but he has turned it around Weegar has been excellent. Conway on the other hand just signed a 5 year extension to Yegor Sharangovich, who had to prove himself.

Definitely teams are still going to sign long-term contracts; I disagree, I think we are still going to see a trend towards signing certain players to short-term contracts. I think if you're going to take the risk then you've got to be sure you've got the right player.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Conroy just said he's going to start signing some players players to 2-3 years deals. If you're signing a home grown player to long-term contract, somebody that's been within your organization for a while at least you know what you're getting.

Definitely teams are still going to sign long-term contracts; I disagree, I think we are still going to see a trend towards signing certain players to short-term contracts. I think if you're going to take the risk then you've got to be sure you've got the right player.

Look who Conroy just signed in free agency. It’s filler and reclamation players. I don’t disagree that the Flames should stay away from the UFA market but GMs aren’t suddenly going to become ultra disciplined in free agency. Zadorov, Tanev, Guentzel, Lindholm, Skeji etc are all long term deals that are going to age poorly.

[Locke]

Whats Pavel Datsyuk up to these days?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Look who Conroy just signed in free agency. It’s filler and reclamation players. I don’t disagree that the Flames should stay away from the UFA market but GMs aren’t suddenly going to become ultra disciplined in free agency. Zadorov, Tanev, Guentzel, Lindholm, Skeji etc are all long term deals that are going to age poorly.

I can't argue that. Many GM's tend to do a lot of things that are counterproductive. I guess you've got to be good at the "art of taking risks". Edmonton is a prime example of bringing in players that no one else would bring in, those could have just as easily backfired.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Hindsight being 20/20 always and forever. Yeah it would have been nice to have Huberdeau prove his next contract and I think Conroy has been alluding to that all offseason.

He's been speaking openly about long term contracts and getting stuck under them with no way out. You can almost guarantee he's talking about Huberdeaus contract.

But I also think Conroy know when his windows are for contract signings. When they're going out there shopping to round off a roster thats in their window to compete consistently, he will open up the checkbook and throw some term around. But not during the building process, unless it's a core player they're bringing up.

I can see parts of his plan and some of the stages he's set for himself. It's smart.

Conroy has brought up the issue of losing players for nothing a few times. I think that one bothers him as well. I know that he's alluded to some of the other players but I think the Johnny contract still bothers him. We got nothing for the player when we actually had time to do something about it. Seems like Conroy's been a bit more upfront with his players knowing their intentions and then going ahead and trading them. The big deal is that we lost assets for very good players and that hurt the organization in the short and long term.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Conroy has brought up the issue of losing players for nothing a few times. I think that one bothers him as well. I know that he's alluded to some of the other players but I think the Johnny contract still bothers him. We got nothing for the player when we actually had time to do something about it. Seems like Conroy's been a bit more upfront with his players knowing their intentions and then going ahead and trading them. The big deal is that we lost assets for very good players and that hurt the organization in the short and long term.

The thing with Treliving that really didn’t make sense to me was that he’d grind really hard on re-signing players but then rollover in free agency

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The thing with Treliving that really didn’t make sense to me was that he’d grind really hard on re-signing players but then rollover in free agency

Negotiating one-on-one is a different skill from bidding in auctions. Treliving wasn't good at the auction stuff.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The thing with Treliving that really didn’t make sense to me was that he’d grind really hard on re-signing players but then rollover in free agency

There has been no concrete evidence but there's been the odd rumor that some of the players didn't like this either. Sutter was probably another one that didn't like it, he didn't seem to be a fan of Huberdeau, and I mean if you are an experienced coach you can tell if somebody's actually putting in the effort. "Not making excuses for Suttwrs behavior". Johnny Matthews and Lindholm at that time were putting in a lot more effort than we saw from the next two new guys brought in.

We all made a lot of excuses for the poor players play and we still do but I would bet anything that that room was fractured..., management too.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

There has been no concrete evidence but there's been the odd rumor that some of the players didn't like this either. Sutter was probably another one that didn't like it, he didn't seem to be a fan of Huberdeau, and I mean if you are an experienced coach you can tell if somebody's actually putting in the effort. "Not making excuses for Suttwrs behavior". Johnny Matthews and Lindholm at that time were putting in a lot more effort than we saw from the next two new guys brought in.

We all made a lot of excuses for the poor players play and we still do but I would bet anything that that room was fractured..., management too.

I am sure that type of contract negotiation strategy can have a pretty negative effect on management/player relationships as well as relationships between players. Getting ground on contracts when you have been a big part of the team for years just to see a new guy come in and get the bag before playing a game wouldn’t make me want to go easy the next time. Apply that to any work place in any industry and it probably has the same effect. And then to see the new guy not earn it makes it even worse.