[Rumour] TSN: Insider Trading - Dec 07

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I just don’t get this. From Lebrun’s article on the athletic

“The Flyers like Walker, but unless they can sign him to an extension, they have to listen to trade offers. The asking price on Walker would be a first-round pick, whereas it’s likely a second-rounder might eventually get it done on Tanev”

Walker is younger, makes less. Lower injury risk? Unsure.

But yeah, I'd still say Tanev could/should net you a first if Walker could.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by neo45

I think they just saw how poorly he’s done with his two trades before and are trying to take advantage.

Sorry if it ruffles feathers, but he traded his leading scorer for a team’s healthy scratch and a third, then had 6 teams interested in a player and traded him for a return that was lower than anyone had predicted. Everyone in Vancouver was doing cartwheels after that trade.

It’s no surprise other GM’s are calling him. He’s shown that he will fold to GM’s

I think there's a huge gap between fan predictions, and market value. Would you have been happy had we paid a 1st, or a 2nd + prospect for Zadorov 2 years ago? I certainly wouldn't be. We signed Z as a free agent, and gained some assets for him now, that's a net gain in my book. Maybe you're arguing the value difference between a 2nd and a 3rd + 5th, in my book that's not that much of a difference.

As for Toffoli, the team needed to get under the cap somehow in the off-season. He was the one guy not in the team's long term plans. It wasn't like we could've just sat pat and waited for the season to start. Moreover, Sharangovich was a healthy scratch in the playoffs, but was a pretty good player for NJ before the Meier trade.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Walker is younger, makes less. Lower injury risk? Unsure.

But yeah, I'd still say Tanev could/should net you a first if Walker could.

Depends on if the acquiring team is planning on signing him. He'd have more value that way than Tanev

[ST20]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I think there's a huge gap between fan predictions, and market value. Would you have been happy had we paid a 1st, or a 2nd + prospect for Zadorov 2 years ago? I certainly wouldn't be. We signed Z as a free agent, and gained some assets for him now, that's a net gain in my book. Maybe you're arguing the value difference between a 2nd and a 3rd + 5th, in my book that's not that much of a difference.

As for Toffoli, the team needed to get under the cap somehow in the off-season. He was the one guy not in the team's long term plans. It wasn't like we could've just sat pat and waited for the season to start. Moreover, Sharangovich was a healthy scratch in the playoffs, but was a pretty good player for NJ before the Meier trade.

I mentioned this in the other thread. Getting Market Value does not tell you very much about a trade.

Market value is time dependent like the stock market. Selling all your stocks at the Covid lows would have been taking market value at the time but everyone can universally agree that it was a very bad decision. Just because you transacted at market value given the time frame it does not mean you got a good, neutral or even a bad deal.

You can criticize Conroy by looking at the process in which the deals were made. Conroy allowed the circumstances of these trade requests dictate his actions and that typically is not good business. Conroy had time on his side and decided to forego that luxury which again is typically not good business. I think it is okay for fans to question these trades based on that.

For the record I did not mind the Toffoli trade but thought they could have gotten more for Zadarov which admit can still be a good trade if he hits it out of the park weaponizing the cap space in future moves).

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I think there's a huge gap between fan predictions, and market value. Would you have been happy had we paid a 1st, or a 2nd + prospect for Zadorov 2 years ago? I certainly wouldn't be. We signed Z as a free agent, and gained some assets for him now, that's a net gain in my book. Maybe you're arguing the value difference between a 2nd and a 3rd + 5th, in my book that's not that much of a difference.

As for Toffoli, the team needed to get under the cap somehow in the off-season. He was the one guy not in the team's long term plans. It wasn't like we could've just sat pat and waited for the season to start. Moreover, Sharangovich was a healthy scratch in the playoffs, but was a pretty good player for NJ before the Meier trade.

We can almost justify any trade. However, one has to admit , both trades returned very underwhelming return at the time.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Walker is younger, makes less. Lower injury risk? Unsure.

But yeah, I'd still say Tanev could/should net you a first if Walker could.

I thought Walker was simply a cap dump along with Cal Peterson in that 3 way Provorov deal this summer and now he is worth a 1st? Tanev has been a league best shutdown guy for a near decade. I get that he is older but he is better and should have a higher pedigree.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

We can almost justify any trade. However, one has to admit , both trades returned very underwhelming return at the time.

Feel free to find any trade in the last 6 months where the team taking on salary dollars gave up anything significant in return in terms of young players or picks.

The Erik Karlsson trade saw the Sharks take on more salary cap hit in return for this plus pay a significant chunk of salary to get a first round pick.

These great deals are not out there right now. But I don't think you'll ever understand that.

It's like saying the guy who sold his house in March of 2022 because he got fired from his job for being incompetent is brilliant because he sold at the top of the market, and the guy who sold his house last week because he was diagnosed with a terminal cancer is an idiot because he didn't sell his house for top dollar.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I thought Walker was simply a cap dump along with Cal Peterson in that 3 way Provorov deal this summer and now he is worth a 1st? Tanev has been a league best shutdown guy for a near decade. I get that he is older but he is better and should have a higher pedigree.

Walker has thrived in Philly. He’s playing over 22 minutes a game and has a 58 percent expected goals rate at five-on-five. Classic case of a guy who seized the opportunity when he was given a bigger role on a new team.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

We can almost justify any trade. However, one has to admit , both trades returned very underwhelming return at the time.

I'd rather get these underwhelming returns than the overwhelming returns Tre got, which were followed by mistakes that set this franchise back a lot more.

Getting Huberdeau + Weegar + 1st + prospect looked like a home run. It was followed up by signing Hubby to a bad contract and trading Monahan + 1st in order to sign Kadri.

Getting the equivalent of 2 x 2nds for a 20P Sam Bennett looked good, but then he turned into a 50-60P player right away.

Paying a 1st + 2 x 2nds for Hamonic seemed fair at the time because he was signed to a value contract for 3-4 more years, and just shut down Crosby in the playoffs.

My point is that if trades are Conroy's biggest weakness, and he doesn't follow it up with bigger mistakes, then we're going to like the direction this team is headed.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I just don’t get this. From Lebrun’s article on the athletic

“The Flyers like Walker, but unless they can sign him to an extension, they have to listen to trade offers. The asking price on Walker would be a first-round pick, whereas it’s likely a second-rounder might eventually get it done on Tanev”

I miss the days when I knew who every player was and where they played and how they were doing.

Who is walker? I don't recall ever hearing about him and now I'm hearing that he could fetch the Flyers a 1st round pick?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Buff

I miss the days when I knew who every player was and where they played and how they were doing.

Who is walker? I don't recall ever hearing about him and now I'm hearing that he could fetch the Flyers a 1st round pick?

Was in LA prior.

He has been better in Philly than he was in LA. But saying he is worth more than Tanev (especially to a playoff team), requires some really serious squinting.

I think the Toronto media is just showing some bias and wanting Tre to get Tanev for cheap

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Buff

I miss the days when I knew who every player was and where they played and how they were doing.

Who is walker? I don't recall ever hearing about him and now I'm hearing that he could fetch the Flyers a 1st round pick?

He's a guy PHI got as a part of the package for Provorov.

LA did very well with their D prospects. That said, I think they sold low on a couple of prospects that couldn't fit their top 4 after they got Gavrikov - namely Walker, and Durzi.

[shutout]

If/when Tanev and Hanifin are traded the Flames are going to need to fill two defensemen spots with NHL caliber players. Players that they do not have on the farm.

It makes sense for a Barrie or Deangelo to be acquired if the cost if bare minimum and the Flames are still chasing and believing that a wild card spot might be available.

Does nothing good for the team and especially the young players for the organization to just mail in a bunch of losses because they lack the talent to be competitive.

[The Original FFIV]

So people would rather have oesterle or de Simone on our bottom pairing. Pretty wild

Take these players on. Worst case scenario they walk for zip. Best case scenario they find their game and help us make playoffs. Or we get a good asset at deadline.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

So people would rather have oesterle or de Simone on our bottom pairing. Pretty wild

Take these players on. Worst case scenario they walk for zip. Best case scenario they find their game and help us make playoffs. Or we get a good asset at deadline.

I have them penciled into the 2nd pairing after the trade-deadline!

Andersson - Weegar
Gilbert - DeSimone
Solovyov - Oesterle

I don't mind taking a look at either Barrie or DeAngelo, but as long as we get something of value packaged with them. I hope the Flames aren't doing other teams any favors.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I have them penciled into the 2nd pairing after the trade-deadline!

Andersson - Weegar
Gilbert - DeSimone
Solovyov - Oesterle

That's ugly.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Feel free to find any trade in the last 6 months where the team taking on salary dollars gave up anything significant in return in terms of young players or picks.

The Erik Karlsson trade saw the Sharks take on more salary cap hit in return for this plus pay a significant chunk of salary to get a first round pick.

These great deals are not out there right now. But I don't think you'll ever understand that.

It's like saying the guy who sold his house in March of 2022 because he got fired from his job for being incompetent is brilliant because he sold at the top of the market, and the guy who sold his house last week because he was diagnosed with a terminal cancer is an idiot because he didn't sell his house for top dollar.

Like I said, you can come up with any reason to justify a trade.

The cap saving means nothing until he takes advantage of it
The market is bad but nobody forces him to make the trade NOW

The return is what it is. Very underwhelming but he still has many opportunities left.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I'd rather get these underwhelming returns than the overwhelming returns Tre got, which were followed by mistakes that set this franchise back a lot more.

Getting Huberdeau + Weegar + 1st + prospect looked like a home run. It was followed up by signing Hubby to a bad contract and trading Monahan + 1st in order to sign Kadri.

Getting the equivalent of 2 x 2nds for a 20P Sam Bennett looked good, but then he turned into a 50-60P player right away.

Paying a 1st + 2 x 2nds for Hamonic seemed fair at the time because he was signed to a value contract for 3-4 more years, and just shut down Crosby in the playoffs.

My point is that if trades are Conroy's biggest weakness, and he doesn't follow it up with bigger mistakes, then we're going to like the direction this team is headed.

Yup , Treliving’s trades look good at first but many turned to #### later

Conroy’s are not too exciting but it’s remaining to be seen long term

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Walker is younger, makes less. Lower injury risk? Unsure.



But yeah, I'd still say Tanev could/should net you a first if Walker could.

If someone is offering a 1st for Tanev he would be traded by now.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

If someone is offering a 1st for Tanev he would be traded by now.

these are always such silly posts

what GMs are 'offering' and what one of them will end up paying, are usually 2 different things