Flames’ attendance

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I know this is going to make me sound old as hell, but I just want to watch hockey not get screamed at by the obnoxious DJ guy they've had for the last few years

I think the Flames are under the impression that more noise = more entertainment. Why spend money on improving the actual entertainment, when you can just yell more.

I've only gone to a handful of games the last few seasons, but a few years ago the one game I went to had a band playing during intermissions. I know that music is subjective so I'm sure many hated it, but I actually thought that was pretty neat, and added to the atmosphere in a sort of Nashville type of way. It doesn't seem like they do that any more though.

[Jason14h]

They don’t do anything anymore . Except the Tim Hortons find the donut under the cup

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They could do a lot to improve the in-game entertainment. A lot of other arenas do a lot of fun stuff, and the Flames constantly seem behind the times.

Behind the times, and doing exactly the same things as they were 5 years ago.

[Enoch Root]

Attendance is a lagging indicator. And the product hasn't been good for the last year and a bit. If they continue to paly more entertaining hockey, it will rebound.

As for the price, yes it has skyrocketed, and yes, they have priced themselves out of reach of average families. However, and apologies that this sounds callous, there are plenty of people and businesses that can and will pay, so these trends are not going to reverse themselves. And I doubt they will affect attendance - they haven't so far, aggregately. So either Calgary is different (I strongly doubt that), or the reasons for Calgary's decline lie elsewhere.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

See, this bothers me a bit. Having been to Flames games at the old Corral back in their first season here, before the bastardization (or Americanization) of the game, in 1980-81 to probably 1986 or so, people just went to the game to watch a HOCKEY game. The didn't have to have pyrotechics and screaming DJ's and piped in rap music to be entertained. The hockey game itself was enough to entertain the crowd.

You could also get in for $6.

I mean, as recently as 1992 I remember paying $6 at 7-11 to attend a Winnipeg Jets game.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

You could also get in for $6.

I mean, as recently as 1992 I remember paying $6 at 7-11 to attend a Winnipeg Jets game.

And a lot of games weren't available on television, and when it was, the television product wasn't as good. Smaller TVs, lower definition etc.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

And a lot of games weren't available on television, and when it was, the television product wasn't as good. Smaller TVs, lower definition etc.

Yeah, so if you wanted to see the game, you had to go to it.

I remember when a Flames game was on TV, not PPV, it was like and EVENT! You got all your buddies together, you made plans to hit the Pub, you had to get there early to get a good seat, etc.

And that was when the team sucked out loud.

But it was just so rare. I want to say that there was something like 14 games a year that were on TV for free or something in that range (I'm guessing).

Its so different now. I can watch the game live, I can watch it after my wife goes to bed, I can stream it on my 4th monitor in the background at work tomorrow...whatever. And I can do this for pretty well all 82 games.

[442scotty]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

You could also get in for $6.

I mean, as recently as 1992 I remember paying $6 at 7-11 to attend a Winnipeg Jets game.

And the Jets near the end of their WHA days were one of the most exciting teams to watch in Hockey. Hull, Hedberg, Nielsen and others. Ah the good old days sigh…

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I get that going to an NHL game is too expensive for many of us. But if you’re not in the top quintile in income, you aren’t the target market for live NHL hockey in Canada anymore. That’s just the reality.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

As for the price, yes it has skyrocketed, and yes, they have priced themselves out of reach of average families.

And this is exactly why so many of us have an issue with putting so much public money towards the new arena. It was one thing when taxes were going towards something the vast majority had a reasonable chance of utilizing...but now with NHL being out of the reach of the average family, it seems extra egregious to ask them to pay for it.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

An article in the Athletic on NHL attendance this season has Calgary grouped in the bottom tier of teams, at 89.5 per cent capacity (one spot below Philadelphia and one above Anaheim).

Flames full capacity sellout is just shy of 12,000. So, at 90% without having any franchise or elite players on the team, 10,000 fans on a nightly basis is still extremely good!

I agree that if the ticket and concession prices were more reasonable and getting to the Stampede grounds is better, more people would attend more regularly.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Flames full capacity sellout is just shy of 12,000. So, at 90% without having any franchise or elite players on the team, 10,000 fans on a nightly basis is still extremely good!

I agree that if the ticket and concession prices were more reasonable and getting to the Stampede grounds is better, more people would attend more regularly.

Flames capacity is 19,289

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I just don't enjoy the overall experience.

It's a pain in the ass to get there, there's too many people, it's too expensive, (even if the tickets are free, it's the cost of everything else) and I know this is going to make me sound old as hell, but I just want to watch hockey not get screamed at by the obnoxious DJ guy they've had for the last few years

Even when the game itself is great, it's still not fun

I think most of CP members are getting to the age where it feels this way.

Also young people these days are looking for shorter, quicker entertainment fixes. They're glued to their phones and looking at different things every 5-10 seconds.
As a generalization, I bet a 20 year old Flames fan now has a very different capacity to go watch a hockey game than we did at 20.
Asking them to commit 4-5 hours to anything is awful to them.

Cost problems on top of that & I can't see the new generation of young adults picking up the tickets to live sports we used to. This will only get worse.

[BowRiverBruinsRule]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I think the Flames are under the impression that more noise = more entertainment. Why spend money on improving the actual entertainment, when you can just yell more.

I've only gone to a handful of games the last few seasons, but a few years ago the one game I went to had a band playing during intermissions. I know that music is subjective so I'm sure many hated it, but I actually thought that was pretty neat, and added to the atmosphere in a sort of Nashville type of way. It doesn't seem like they do that any more though.

I was at the band game. I thought it was cool.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

Ultimately is comes down to cost/value, but anecdotally, the Flames and NHL have lost the next generation of fans.

Mark my words. The Flames will get 2-3 years of a new arena bump in fan interest. By 2030, the attendance will be clinging around the 12k mark, regardless of team success. It is not just a Flames issue. This is short term profit over long term community fan building failure. The CFL will fold in a decade because of a similar short term business focus. The NHL will be fine, but we've hit the high water mark of what fans will pay.

1997
-Flames tickets for a Leafs game, section 219, row 22 are $22.50 ($39.39 in 2023 dollars)
-My boomer dad was in his 30s. Good paying job, live a good upper-middle class life.
-Housing cost to disposable income is 29.4%. Household debt to income ratio is 101%
-Most of his boomer friends that are sports fans are Flames fans and Stamps fans (limited other options, business culture, etc)
-Entertainment options for the night are dialup internet, watch Melrose Place on tv, play with his kids, or go to a Flames game

2023
-Flames ticket for a Leafs game, section 217, row 23 are $188.
-Millennial me is in my 30s. Good paying job, live a good upper-middle class life.
-Housing cost to disposable income is 50.2%. Household debt to income ratio is 171%.
-My friends that are sports fans are into hockey, NBA, cricket, NFL, F1, soccer, E-sports (all very accessible on streaming, social media, still some degree of hockey/golf business culture)
-Entertainment options for the night are Netflix, any other team/sport, HD Flames hockey, Tinder, Youtube, video games

This is not sustainable

Yep, plus there's almost no point to going to the game and then feeling like you just lost $200 because the team sucked on the ice and you go home depressed in the cold. The traffic design around the dome is terrible. The concessions and facilities are cramped and terrible.

I'm probably into hockey because of the 2004 team cup run and back then IIRC nosebleeds were under $20 for students and you would just end up watching the big screens since the players looked like ants from up there.

Have purchased tickets out of pocket maybe 2-3 times in those 20 years because its just not worth it.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

1997
-Flames tickets for a Leafs game, section 219, row 22 are $22.50 ($39.39 in 2023 dollars)

The 1997 Flames were a hard sell. Even by today's standards.

1996-97 - 73 points
1997-98 - 67 points

And the Canadian dollar was in free fall an there were even darker times ahead for the franchise.

Despite this, the attendance numbers were not terrible given the ticket prices.

1996-97 - 17,088
1997-98 - 16,864

But that wouldn't last in the seasons that followed and the Flames would have to practically give tickets away.

But I agree the Flames will not be able to sustain attendance at the current ticket prices.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I think most of CP members are getting to the age where it feels this way.

Also young people these days are looking for shorter, quicker entertainment fixes. They're glued to their phones and looking at different things every 5-10 seconds.
As a generalization, I bet a 20 year old Flames fan now has a very different capacity to go watch a hockey game than we did at 20.
Asking them to commit 4-5 hours to anything is awful to them.

Cost problems on top of that & I can't see the new generation of young adults picking up the tickets to live sports we used to. This will only get worse.

If this were true, then it would be true of any sporting event, and that just isn't the case. There is nothing unique about young people in Calgary, except that the product here is far too expensive for the entertainment value it provides.

Some of that you could probably attribute to the aging building, but it's also derivative of the quality of the team itself. I'm sure people would spend money they don't have to attend games if the team was a consistent playoff contender, or at least played a fun brand of hockey with a good future to look forward to. It's the extended stretches of boring hockey, mushy middle finishes, and playoff fizzles that don't draw crowds. Even the die-hard fans would rather be at home.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I think most of CP members are getting to the age where it feels this way.

Also young people these days are looking for shorter, quicker entertainment fixes. They're glued to their phones and looking at different things every 5-10 seconds.
As a generalization, I bet a 20 year old Flames fan now has a very different capacity to go watch a hockey game than we did at 20.
Asking them to commit 4-5 hours to anything is awful to them.

Cost problems on top of that & I can't see the new generation of young adults picking up the tickets to live sports we used to. This will only get worse.

Not directed at your post, but at all posts citing high prices and other options...

If those were the driving forces, the attendance issues would be league-wide. They are not.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Not directed at your post, but at all posts citing high prices and other options...

If those were the driving forces, the attendance issues would be league-wide. They are not.

It depends on the market. Toronto is basically the team for most of Ontario and Eastern Canada. They are never going to run out of people willing to pay.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

It depends on the market. Toronto is basically the team for most of Ontario and Eastern Canada. They are never going to run out of people willing to pay.

Okay sure. That leaves 26 other teams.

[ST20]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Not directed at your post, but at all posts citing high prices and other options...

If those were the driving forces, the attendance issues would be league-wide. They are not.

Flames also have one of the most affordable ticket prices and concessions in all of the league by a decent margin. This is relative to other NHL teams of course. I am not saying it is affordable for most to attend.