Flames’ attendance

[DirtyMike]

I wonder what would the figures would look like if you excluded press level rows 4+? Probably 15K capacity and I bet it's close to 100% filled every game.

In my opinion, it's not worth going to a game if you have to sit up there, you end up watching half the game on those fuzzy TVs stapled to the press box.

So all this to say, I don't think it's an apples-to-apples comparison to compare the Saddledome to other arenas where you can actually see the full ice surface and jumbotron from every seat in the arena.

[nfotiu]

I know it's more than just ticket prices, but there are $5 tickets in the PL on Stubhub and <$20 tickets in the 200 sections that don't seem to be getting bought up very quickly.

Attendance can really snowball downwards once season tickets aren't sold out, then people can't sell their unused tickets, then less people renew, then there is no scarceness of tickets and people don't see it as the place to be etc. Attendance can be more of a factor of the last couple years than what is happening the current year.

[Erick Estrada]

The team just saw it's two best players walk a couple of seasons ago. The new guys haven't worked out and a handful of core players are walking at the end of this season. Future projections for the organization aren't exactly rosy. It really shouldn't surprise anyone that attendance has been declining when you consider inflation and hard times for a lot of people. The Jets have had numerous games <12k fans and they are actually having a decent season on the ice.

[CliffFletcher]

I get that going to an NHL game is too expensive for many of us. But if you’re not in the top quintile in income, you aren’t the target market for live NHL hockey in Canada anymore. That’s just the reality.

But even if lack of affordability, inflation etc., is a problem, that doesn’t explain why attendance has dropped more in Calgary this season than in Saint Paul, Ottawa, or St. Louis.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I know it's more than just ticket prices, but there are $5 tickets in the PL on Stubhub and <$20 tickets in the 200 sections that don't seem to be getting bought up very quickly.

Attendance can really snowball downwards once season tickets aren't sold out, then people can't sell their unused tickets, then less people renew, then there is no scarceness of tickets and people don't see it as the place to be etc. Attendance can be more of a factor of the last couple years than what is happening the current year.

In my own personal opinion, and I havent gone to many games recently, but getting to the game, around the arena during the game and home from the game is a giant pain in the ass.

Imagine doing it while hauling some kids around.

The thing is, the atmosphere can be worth it, going can be a lot of fun, but its a 'rare occasion' kind of thing.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Incogneto

It's absolutely unaffordable for a family to go to a game at this point. I would love to take my kids to a game, but it costs the same as a weekend in Banff.

Make it more affordable, and the people will come back.

I get exactly what you're saying but prices are never going down, especially with a new rink coming. think of what it would cost you now and add 20-40%.

The owners don't care if a good chunk of the population is priced out, as long as someone out there is buying tickets.

[madmike]

It’s likely more important from a business standpoint to have a good team when the new arena opens than it is now. The margins for the Flames are going to be a lot better at the new arena.

[Rejean31]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They could do a lot to improve the in-game entertainment. A lot of other arenas do a lot of fun stuff, and the Flames constantly seem behind the times.

See, this bothers me a bit. Having been to Flames games at the old Corral back in their first season here, before the bastardization (or Americanization) of the game, in 1980-81 to probably 1986 or so, people just went to the game to watch a HOCKEY game. The didn't have to have pyrotechics and screaming DJ's and piped in rap music to be entertained. The hockey game itself was enough to entertain the crowd.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Although I totally agree and don't dare go to a game that I am personally paying for, I think its the product. There is an insane amount of money in this city and I think they would be full if they had anything compelling about them. Going on a bit of a run here but there is nothing that compels you to suffer vs watching at home.

I usually get a3-4 games offered per year and its been pretty much every game this year. Sales guys don't even want to go. The hassle is so not worth it.

Who do I need to pretend to be to get the sales guys to give me tickets?

[1991 Canadian]

Ultimately is comes down to cost/value, but anecdotally, the Flames and NHL have lost the next generation of fans.

Mark my words. The Flames will get 2-3 years of a new arena bump in fan interest. By 2030, the attendance will be clinging around the 12k mark, regardless of team success. It is not just a Flames issue. This is short term profit over long term community fan building failure. The CFL will fold in a decade because of a similar short term business focus. The NHL will be fine, but we've hit the high water mark of what fans will pay.

1997
-Flames tickets for a Leafs game, section 219, row 22 are $22.50 ($39.39 in 2023 dollars)
-My boomer dad was in his 30s. Good paying job, live a good upper-middle class life.
-Housing cost to disposable income is 29.4%. Household debt to income ratio is 101%
-Most of his boomer friends that are sports fans are Flames fans and Stamps fans (limited other options, business culture, etc)
-Entertainment options for the night are dialup internet, watch Melrose Place on tv, play with his kids, or go to a Flames game

2023
-Flames ticket for a Leafs game, section 217, row 23 are $188.
-Millennial me is in my 30s. Good paying job, live a good upper-middle class life.
-Housing cost to disposable income is 50.2%. Household debt to income ratio is 171%.
-My friends that are sports fans are into hockey, NBA, cricket, NFL, F1, soccer, E-sports (all very accessible on streaming, social media, still some degree of hockey/golf business culture)
-Entertainment options for the night are Netflix, any other team/sport, HD Flames hockey, Tinder, Youtube, video games

This is not sustainable

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The Flames having one of the largest capacity arenas in the league will always skew their percent capacity number.

Yup. That was the point.

But it may be wrong, average raw attendance of the Flames is in the bottom half (maybe just at the top of the bottom third of the league) despite having the 6th most seats.

I do agree with some that PL isn't worth the money and skews the result. I attend 1/4 of the games and could even tell you how full that section is because you can't see it.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

Ultimately is comes down to cost/value, but anecdotally, the Flames and NHL have lost the next generation of fans.

Mark my words. The Flames will get 2-3 years of a new arena bump in fan interest. By 2030, the attendance will be clinging around the 12k mark, regardless of team success. It is not just a Flames issue. This is short term profit over long term community fan building failure. The CFL will fold in a decade because of a similar short term business focus. The NHL will be fine, but we've hit the high water mark of what fans will pay.

1997
-Flames tickets for a Leafs game, section 219, row 22 are $22.50 ($39.39 in 2023 dollars)
-My boomer dad was in his 30s. Good paying job, live a good upper-middle class life.
-Housing cost to disposable income is 29.4%. Household debt to income ratio is 101%
-Most of his boomer friends that are sports fans are Flames fans and Stamps fans (limited other options, business culture, etc)
-Entertainment options for the night are dialup internet, watch Melrose Place on tv, play with his kids, or go to a Flames game

2023
-Flames ticket for a Leafs game, section 217, row 23 are $188.
-Millennial me is in my 30s. Good paying job, live a good upper-middle class life.
-Housing cost to disposable income is 50.2%. Household debt to income ratio is 171%.
-My friends that are sports fans are into hockey, NBA, cricket, NFL, F1, soccer, E-sports (all very accessible on streaming, social media, still some degree of hockey/golf business culture)
-Entertainment options for the night are Netflix, any other team/sport, HD Flames hockey, Tinder, Youtube, video games

This is not sustainable

I don't disagree, but if you're counting tinder now you should count video dating and phone chat lines to your dad's era

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Flames keep playing like they have been and attendance will see a boost.

People want a competitive team, but they also want an exciting one. The Flames were neither to start this year.

IMO a true superstar will sell seats too. Nobody on this team is selling tickets so if they aren't winning they really aren't giving us a reason to go

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

See, this bothers me a bit. Having been to Flames games at the old Corral back in their first season here, before the bastardization (or Americanization) of the game, in 1980-81 to probably 1986 or so, people just went to the game to watch a HOCKEY game. The didn't have to have pyrotechics and screaming DJ's and piped in rap music to be entertained. The hockey game itself was enough to entertain the crowd.

and men were men, right? (insert Tim Allen monkey sounds here)
and back then drinking and driving was ok, and slapping your kids in the head was no problem.

times change. people want a bit more for their entertainment dollar now.

[Vox]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

and men were men, right? (insert Tim Allen monkey sounds here)
and back then drinking and driving was ok, and slapping your kids in the head was no problem.

times change. people want a bit more for their entertainment dollar now.

I can't slap my kids in the back of the head anymore?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Yup, everything's become too expensive to expect sold out arenas in the future to be a long term occurence, especially on weekdays.

People have to work more and have less time and disposable income to blow at a hockey game (especially if we're getting anything resembling the Katz menu with $50 burger combos)

People, especially those with families will opt for more budget-friendly alternatives which will be just about anything else.

[Table 5]

Speaking of entertainment tweaks, one think that would make the game better is turning down the music volume by 10-20%. Not because I don't like the music selection (because its fine, even if I don't like it all), but the overpowered speakers at the Dome are extremely grating to listen to over a period of a game...atleast in the 200s where I tend to sit.

[Jason14h]

Terrible arena. , terrible production quality , expensive , and average (sometimes) product ?

I went to the Dallas game - great entertainment game from a hockey perspective - but the off ice product is somehow worse every year , and my seat is so worn it was like sitting on concrete - almost worse somehow then a seat in McMahon

My back and hip hurt for 2 days .

[dustygoon]

Everything goes in cycles. NHL has had a decent run of revenue growth over the last several years. Driven by TV but also ticket prices.

ESPN and sportsnet deals were huge, but they have not worked out as well as either network expected. I doubt the next TV deals break the bank in the same way.

For a gate driven league, I don't see ticket prices continuing to go up like they have unless the in-game experience vastly improves and you get more for your money in successive years.

Reasonable chance that fans tire of their product and folks turn their nose at season tickets especially if your team isn't in contention. Jets started the year with weak attendance. Sharks are struggling. Buffalo....those poor fans.

[btimbit]

I just don't enjoy the overall experience.

It's a pain in the ass to get there, there's too many people, it's too expensive, (even if the tickets are free, it's the cost of everything else) and I know this is going to make me sound old as hell, but I just want to watch hockey not get screamed at by the obnoxious DJ guy they've had for the last few years

Even when the game itself is great, it's still not fun