Can we talk about the cap?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Renegitiating contracts is an option too

I'm not sure what you mean but you can't renegotiate an existing player contract.

[rogermexico]

A Sean Monahan buyout as a last resort wouldn't be the worst thing. (I love Sean Monahan and I'm not advocating for this, just wanted to look into the numbers if we need to go there.)

The buyout cost would be $2M in 22-23 and $2M in 23-24. So we would save $4m on his cap hit next year and then be on the hook for that $2M for one more year past. Not bad all things considered.

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-c...r/sean-monahan

[devo22]

Looch is another interesting one, but I guess there won't be many options. A buyout wouldn't solve anything (cap relief would only be 667k) and I'm not sure he'd have all that much of a trade market (plus he has an NMC until June and then a 10 team NTC). Not that I want to get rid of him btw, I love the guy ... but paying him and Mony a combined 11.6m is a problem, given the UFAs and RFAs we have.

[EVERLAST]

It's funny this came up .....yesterday I heard on thr fan 960 them discussing this very thing.

One topic brought up but quickly dismissed was a luxury tax .....to be paid on a capless 1 player luxury tax per team.
Bettman would never go for this apparently because he knows the BOG in the NHL wouldn't agree to this either.
I've been asking myself WHY NOT?? Wouldn't this be easier than the cap cheating that's already currently being practiced by certain dirty cheating sons a ------?
Maybe the economics of this wouldn't work and I'm certainly no expert but let's discuss this?
Anyone?

[Groot]

Capfriendly has the Flames with $27,050,000 in cap space next year. Rumored it will go up by $1 million so let's say $28 million in cap space. I think Monahan will be gone, either through trade or maybe even buyout (buyout saves $4 million next year and costs $2 million the following).

Obviously trading his cap with no retention is ideal for cap savings so that saves another $6.375 million.

Total Cap Space $34,425,000

Gaudreau - 8 x $11
Tkachuk - 8 x $10
Mangiapane - 3 x $5 (bridge to UFA, can sign a long term contract at 28)
Kylington 3 x $4.5 (he won't be the highest paid defender and this puts him in line with the other top 3)
Ruzicka 2 x $1

Total - $31.5 million

Remaining - $2,925,000. Need 4 forwards and 3 defenseman.

Still not enough. So then it looks like Dube is the odd man out, as his $2.3 million would give the team $5,225,000 in space, and likely be enough to fill out the roster by graduating prospects.

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Mangiapane - Backlund - Coleman
TBD - TBD - Toffoli
Lucic - Ruzicka - TBD
TBD

Hanifin - Andersson
Kylington - Tanev
TBD - TBD
TBD

Markstrom
Vladar

$5,225,000 to fill out the TBD positions.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Luxury taxes are ineffective because the big market teams with huge resources just buy the best players and the small market teams never have the big name players. Luxury taxes are dumb and only benefit those that can pay them.

[devo22]

looking at it more in detail, I think it's inevitable we'll lose one of Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Mangiapane. Just too tight of a fit unless you can shed Mony's whole contract, which is not going to happen I think.

from an asset management standpoint, the ideal play would be to re-sign Gaudreau and Tkachuk, then trade Mangiapane. I don't want to lose him at all, but if push comes to shove, it needs to happen. I'm sure you could get a nice pick/prospect package for him.

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Coleman - Backlund - Toffoli

would still be a really good top 6.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Groot

Capfriendly has the Flames with $27,050,000 in cap space next year. Rumored it will go up by $1 million so let's say $28 million in cap space. I think Monahan will be gone, either through trade or maybe even buyout (buyout saves $4 million next year and costs $2 million the following).

Obviously trading his cap with no retention is ideal for cap savings so that saves another $6.375 million.

Total Cap Space $34,425,000

Gaudreau - 8 x $11
Tkachuk - 8 x $10
Mangiapane - 3 x $5 (bridge to UFA, can sign a long term contract at 28)
Kylington 3 x $4.5 (he won't be the highest paid defender and this puts him in line with the other top 3)
Ruzicka 2 x $1

Total - $31.5 million

Remaining - $2,925,000. Need 4 forwards and 3 defenseman.

Mangiapane is still cap controllable. Toffoli is here to provide a comparable/limit on his contract, and he is still an RFA with a relatively low qualifying offer. I don't see Mangiapane making more than $4-4.5M AAV. The only question mark is term and whether he signs long-term or just 1-2 years to get to UFA as soon as possible.

Similar situation with Kylington. Especially with RFA status, there is no way Kylington gets $4.5M after one good season and without proving himself away from Tanev. He's probably getting bridge deal in the $2-3M range.

That would make $4.5-5.0M in cap space for the remaining four forwards and three defensemen if Sutter is running a full 23-man roster.

Still extremely tight, but doable...assuming Treliving can offload Monahan.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by devo22

looking at it more in detail, I think it's inevitable we'll lose one of Gaudreau, Tkachuk and Mangiapane. Just too tight of a fit unless you can shed Mony's whole contract, which is not going to happen I think.

from an asset management standpoint, the ideal play would be to re-sign Gaudreau and Tkachuk, then trade Mangiapane. I don't want to lose him at all, but if push comes to shove, it needs to happen. I'm sure you could get a nice pick/prospect package for him.

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Coleman - Backlund - Toffoli

would still be a really good top 6.

That's the asset management best case, but I think you really have to judge what Tkachuk intends. It's probably either an 8 year deal to max his $$ now or he's going to bolt after his QO season, in which case maybe you trade him this spring before he does.

[Bonded]

Flames win the cup and Lucic hangs them up

[Monahammer]

Asst. Coach Looch? Asst. GM looch?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Flames win the cup and Lucic hangs them up

How does a signing bonus work in a long term contract? When does it get paid?

Lucic next year has a $3m signing bonus and $1m salary. If you pay the signing bonus up front, some non-spending team might want him to get the floor. $1m salary and a $6m cap hit. Its an Arizona special.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

How does a signing bonus work in a long term contract? When does it get paid?

Lucic next year has a $3m signing bonus and $1m salary. If you pay the signing bonus up front, some non-spending team might want him to get the floor. $1m salary and a $6m cap hit. Its an Arizona special.

Kraken? Pretty close to home for him. Take pretty much anything to make it work. Or add more and get a cheap player back because Calgary still needs to fill a roster..

[Samonadreau]

One of Monahan or Looch wont be on the team next season.

[cam_wmh]

I feel part of re-signing Gaudreau is us having his good friend Monahan on the roster.
My ideal is Lucic retires after the parade, and like Devo maximize Mangiapane at peak asset value.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Flames win the cup and Lucic hangs them up

Can he retire after collecting his signing bonus? How does that work for the cap?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

How does a signing bonus work in a long term contract? When does it get paid?

Lucic next year has a $3m signing bonus and $1m salary. If you pay the signing bonus up front, some non-spending team might want him to get the floor. $1m salary and a $6m cap hit. Its an Arizona special.

And there's also opportunity to move him at the TDL. ARI will probably get a mid round pick for Stralman this year, and could cash-in bigger on Ghost next year if he maintains his renewed form.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

And there's also opportunity to move him at the TDL. ARI will probably get a mid round pick for Stralman this year, and could cash-in bigger on Ghost next year if he maintains his renewed form.

Not with you or anyone else on moving a major chemistry guy/glue guy like Looch at the TDL at all. Do you hear the crowd when he's on the ice? He's still a HVY Weight champ to boot. Hits like a truck. At this stage can't see Monahan moved at TDL for chemistry reasons either and he's been killer on face offs. Believe it or not after Backlund, Monahan is now the 2nd longest team tenured player.

Next off season is next off season and we'll see if Lucic retires or what. But the way these guys are playing and if anyone should be named Captain it's Looch.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I suspect that we will see one of Gaudreau, Tkachuk, or Mangiapane traded around the draft to recoup some youth and do a mini-retool on the fly. I suspect it's going to be Tkachuk that gets dealt for a 1st and a couple of very solid to bluechip prospects/players ready to make the jump. Flames will lose a top line player but bring in some players with potential to develop into the same level of player. I think the Flames dump a player like Lucic or Monahan to make sure they can retain some of the other players on the roster like Zadorov and Gudbransson, and then pay the RFAs. There are some interesting targets out there. More to come.

What do you think Brad could get from the Sens for Chucky?

[dino7c]

why worry about the cap? nobody else does...half the league is over