Tear it down? Can this fanbase get behind a rebuild?

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

The fanbase isn't the issue, can ownership stomach bottoming out over a 3-5 year period with potentially no playoffs for a decade? As soon as they trend upward the mentality shifts to, lets make the playoffs and hope for a run.

Can you name me a team that rebuilt in this time period. I can name you a few who haven't come close, Edm/Buf/Ariz/Detroit/NJ/Col (original period started before Duchene and ROR)/Van.

[PepsiFree]

I could easily stomach a rebuild. At the same time, it just doesn’t feel necessary to me yet. It’s still a relatively young team with a lot of potential and enough assets to retool with. Lindholm has been a bright spot. Mangiapane, Dube, Tkachuk, Andersson, Hanifin, Valimaki, all have room to take a step. We have some prospects that could make noise. I think you mix up the leadership group, focus on complementing the guys I specifically mentioned, and see what happens. I’d be fine with parting with Treliving if we miss the playoffs and see what someone else can do with it before burning it to the ground (and I would not want him handling the rebuild anyway).

I know a couple people are whining about the “one more year” thing, but really, Markstrom had a bad year and Sutter came in half way. Acting like “one more year” is a cliche just ignores the actual changes that occur between the times those things are said. We should at least have a better idea if either of those things were worthwhile changes after next year. We just don’t know yet.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Locke

This was the single easiest year ever to make the playoffs. And we did not.

Making the playoffs was no easier this year than any other. I've set out the numbers in other posts.

[Dion]

We seem to be a middle of the road team that goes nowhere. Not good enough to challenge for a Cup and not bad enough to score a high draft pick. A part of me is tired of making the playoffs every second season and then a quick exit.

Tinker with core but at the same time lets insert some of the players from Abby and put them on the 3rd and 4th lines and see if they develop into something.Signing guys like Levo and Simon do nothing for this team

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

He said it will never be next year. If he thinks things will never get better why would he still follow the Flames? If I felt that this team will never be good I would be out. Probably follow the Kraken or something. I sure wouldn't waste my time getting upset about a team I thought would never be good.

I was referring to the next year we will be a contender and free beer tomorrow. Management keeps saying next year will be different. This team will get better but i think they'll get there sooner if they rebuild now instead of waiting for the bottom to completely fall out and they're left with even less assets.

Talk down about me posting, that's fine. I mean talking about rebuilding in a thread about potentially rebuilding. I can't believe people come in to a thread about rebuilding and keep saying "one more year" "it's a NEW New coach this time" " the answers are in the room".

I will always be a fan of this team, no matter what. I won't be canceling things or caring less if they don't do what I want. They haven't done what I thought they should do for a few years yet here I am. We agree on a lot of things and some things we don't either way, we're all here because love them or hate them, we're Flames fans.

[Samonadreau]

Ive just come to accept that the Flames will continue to be mediocre and maybe one year we will catch lightning in a bottle.

My biggest issue is ths team has no identity. Just kind of there. Maybe fans in the crowd next season will help.

[topfiverecords]

Can we get one of those hockey team makeovers like you see on TV that only takes a week?

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I was referring to the next year we will be a contender and free beer tomorrow. Management keeps saying next year will be different. This team will get better but i think they'll get there sooner if they rebuild now instead of waiting for the bottom to completely fall out and they're left with even less assets.

... things and some things we don't either way, we're all here because love them or hate them, we're Flames fans.

So this is the only thing you believe from Flames management. Might be time to cut the cord.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I was referring to the next year we will be a contender and free beer tomorrow. Management keeps saying next year will be different. This team will get better but i think they'll get there sooner if they rebuild now instead of waiting for the bottom to completely fall out and they're left with even less assets.

Talk down about me posting, that's fine. I mean talking about rebuilding in a thread about potentially rebuilding. I can't believe people come in to a thread about rebuilding and keep saying "one more year" "it's a NEW New coach this time" " the answers are in the room".

I will always be a fan of this team, no matter what. I won't be canceling things or caring less if they don't do what I want. They haven't done what I thought they should do for a few years yet here I am. We agree on a lot of things and some things we don't either way, we're all here because love them or hate them, we're Flames fans.

My apologies, I thought you were saying the team would never turn it around. You are right, we all have a passion for the team or we wouldn't be here. We disagree on the direction they should go next year but we agree on Go Flames.

[FlamesAddiction]

If the Oilers fanbase could tolerate a long rebuild (or consecutive rebuilds depending on how you look at it), then the Flames should be able to. I don't want to believe that their fanbase is more dedicated and resilient than the Flames fanbase.

If I made it through the Young Guns era and the current mediocrity, I could live through an actual rebuild.

Of course, I am not a season ticket holder and don't invest a tonne of money on the Flames, so my own allegiance isn't what the owners are concerned about.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If the Oilers fanbase could tolerate a long rebuild (or consecutive rebuilds depending on how you look at it), then the Flames should be able to. I don't want to believe that their fanbase is more dedicated and resilient than the Flames fanbase.

The Oilers' fanbase is at any rate more delusional than the Flames' fanbase. They didn't tolerate a long rebuild; they were sold a bill of goods one year at a time, and eagerly bought it.

With a lot of Oiler fans, all you have to do is play the Gretzky card. ‘We built a dynasty around the greatest player in the game, so it's obvious that we can do it again. Just wait and see, and meanwhile give us your money!’ The Flames don't have any such card to play.

If I made it through the Young Guns era and the current mediocrity, I could live through an actual rebuild.

That's just the problem. The owners know exactly how many fans did not make it through the Young Guns era. At present, they have to spend a minimum of $60 million a year on players just to reach the cap floor. If they had to do that while drawing crowds of 12,000 or 13,000, they would lose their shirts.

[sa226]

It's better for business to try and be competitive with a decent roster than to just tear it all down and go for aces every 3 years.

There's a lot of top 10 picks on this roster. It's unfortunate than so far none have stepped up to be truly elite. There's even more 1st and second round picks to round out the roster.

There were more than enough bullets in the chamber, it just hasn't panned out.

But, there are also too many good players on good contracts under the age of 30 to tear it down. The core needs a change and I think its going to get one. Total tear down? Not a chance.

Maybe when Sutter said that he owes the owners a dept. He's just trying to get them some playoff gate revenue.

The past couple years I think I've stepped back as a future obsessed fan. I'm less attached to the players as well Just give me some good hockey. I just want to cheer for a competitive team. Trade 10 1sts for Eichel, sign Hall to a 15 year contract, I don't care, just give me something other than the revolving door of disappointment

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

[TheSquatch]

The team isn't great, and it's possible it's not even good. Their record under Darryl was basically identical to their record under Ward.

The Flames are way out. Look at the Boston Bruins, Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron.... defense core is okay, goalie real good. And they got bounced here.

Gaudreau's great. But he's not Pastrnak for finish (or speed), he really isn't. So if the argument here is that the team has some really nice pieces (they do), and that a few more of the right pieces would make them say, a New York Islanders type of team, tough, gritty, fast... okay, I guess maybe.

But if the argument is that the Flames actually have plenty of elite level talent and it just kinda sorta didn't show up last year (or the year before), then I disagree, I don't think the Flames have much in the elite category.

So rip it. Not for magic beans, and not for "next year". Rip it up when it's right for contracts, when a strong draft is on the horizon, rip it up when you can rebuild it with something genuinely good. I'm not sure that's available right now.

Mediocrity, a competitive team that has some good nights and some bad ones, and sneaks into the playoffs - that's what the Flames are for some time to come barring a miracle.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

The team isn't great, and it's possible it's not even good. Their record under Darryl was basically identical to their record under Ward.

The Flames are way out. Look at the Boston Bruins, Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron.... defense core is okay, goalie real good. And they got bounced here.

Gaudreau's great. But he's not Pastrnak for finish (or speed), he really isn't. So if the argument here is that the team has some really nice pieces (they do), and that a few more of the right pieces would make them say, a New York Islanders type of team, tough, gritty, fast... okay, I guess maybe.

But if the argument is that the Flames actually have plenty of elite level talent and it just kinda sorta didn't show up last year (or the year before), then I disagree, I don't think the Flames have much in the elite category.

So rip it. Not for magic beans, and not for "next year". Rip it up when it's right for contracts, when a strong draft is on the horizon, rip it up when you can rebuild it with something genuinely good. I'm not sure that's available right now.

Mediocrity, a competitive team that has some good nights and some bad ones, and sneaks into the playoffs - that's what the Flames are for some time to come barring a miracle.

Agree with this.

The current version of the Flames actually has decent depth when it comes to good players, but good isn't good enough. Elite players win championships. You need to have at least one, but usually more than one, player in each position that is in the top 3-5 among their peers. The Flames have none of that now. Gio's Norris season carried the team far, but that player no longer exists. No one else on the team is even close to being among the best in the league at anything. No matter how many "good" players you have, it can't make up for the lack of elite players.

If by some miracle, the Flames manage to sign a player like Landeskog and trade for Eichel (and he is healthy), I could see that making a world of difference, but short of that, I don't have high expectations. Such drastic turnover usually comes with a hit on team chemistry as well, so even with a substantial re-tool, the benefits might now be apparent for at least a season.

[simonsays]

I feel like we've seen the high water mark from this crew. Peters had them flying until the asg in 19 and we haven't seen anything like it since. Now I know Sutter is different, he'll have his own way of motivating but... I just don't think that our core has it in them to take the next step. Johnny isn't the dynamo that he was, Monny seems like damaged goods. Tkachuk needs re-alighnment. I have a hard time seeing how this team competes in the playoffs, if they make it. Rebuild for me. Likely not for ownership/management.

[dammage79]

I'd trade literally anyone on the Flames not named Lindholm.

[Roof-Daddy]

I could see this core tuning Sutter out within a season.

Hopefully I'm wrong. Maybe the newly hired Associate coach will be bale to help with that.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I could see this core tuning Sutter out within a season.

Hopefully I'm wrong. Maybe the newly hired Associate coach will be bale to help with that.

When he was hired this time, Sutter made it quite clear that he was using the rest of the season to evaluate the roster. Somehow I don't think the players who would tune him out are going to be on the team for a whole season.

Originally Posted by dammage79

I'd trade literally anyone on the Flames not named Lindholm.

I'd add Tanev to that list. The way he plays, he seems like the perfect veteran to show a new defence corps what needs to be done and how to do it.

After that, we're down to guys like Mangiapane, Dube, and Valimaki, where there's a case to be made that they are still improving and it would be better to trade them for a higher price next year. However, I'm not wedded to keeping any of them if trading them will improve the team's assets.

[blender]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

The team isn't great, and it's possible it's not even good. Their record under Darryl was basically identical to their record under Ward.

The Flames are way out. Look at the Boston Bruins, Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron.... defense core is okay, goalie real good. And they got bounced here.

Gaudreau's great. But he's not Pastrnak for finish (or speed), he really isn't. So if the argument here is that the team has some really nice pieces (they do), and that a few more of the right pieces would make them say, a New York Islanders type of team, tough, gritty, fast... okay, I guess maybe.

But if the argument is that the Flames actually have plenty of elite level talent and it just kinda sorta didn't show up last year (or the year before), then I disagree, I don't think the Flames have much in the elite category.

So rip it. Not for magic beans, and not for "next year". Rip it up when it's right for contracts, when a strong draft is on the horizon, rip it up when you can rebuild it with something genuinely good. I'm not sure that's available right now.

Mediocrity, a competitive team that has some good nights and some bad ones, and sneaks into the playoffs - that's what the Flames are for some time to come barring a miracle.

So if the Flames were to make the conference finals two years in a row and lose a close series to the eventual cup winner, I will be sure of 2 things:

They will be a good team.

Posters here will be moaning.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

When he was hired this time, Sutter made it quite clear that he was using the rest of the season to evaluate the roster. Somehow I don't think the players who would tune him out are going to be on the team for a whole season.



I'd add Tanev to that list. The way he plays, he seems like the perfect veteran to show a new defence corps what needs to be done and how to do it.

After that, we're down to guys like Mangiapane, Dube, and Valimaki, where there's a case to be made that they are still improving and it would be better to trade them for a higher price next year. However, I'm not wedded to keeping any of them if trading them will improve the team's assets.

By a whole season do you mean all next season?