Moving in together

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

Yikes, so much has changed. Whatever happened to sleeping on your buddies couch for a few weeks while you look for a new place after the girlfriend kicks you out?

I get that people need to protect themselves and their money but it almost sounds like a defeatist attitude going in. I didn't worry about such things when I first shacked up with a lady I was just happy it was going to be a lot easier to have sex and I didn't have anything better to do at the time.

Now, the second (maybe third) time around it was different as I figured there was a future there but money and assets still never came into play. Granted, that was over 20 years ago. Tough situation. Relationships are all about trust and I can see people taking exception to being asked to sign one but you still need to protect yourself. Man...

Basically I got nothing. Good luck young man.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Having seen a family member (not in Alberta) get taken to the cleaners by a common law girlfriend about 10 years ago that cost him six figures, I don’t take anything for granted.

We all thought she was a sweetheart. Until they broke up and she made his life hell. Expensive life lesson that was.

[81MC]

It really makes me sad there are people like that out there. And happy my ex wife is the polar opposite. I can’t imagine going through a breakup that nasty.

[afc wimbledon]

People need to stop thinking about whether 'she' gets paid, with legal matters you pay someone even if she doesn't get paid.

If she tales you to court, even with a pre nup, an iron clad case and her having no chance of winning you still end up paying out in legal fees, that's why you get taken to court when the other side has no chance of winning.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Having seen a family member (not in Alberta) get taken to the cleaners by a common law girlfriend about 10 years ago that cost him six figures, I don’t take anything for granted.

We all thought she was a sweetheart. Until they broke up and she made his life hell. Expensive life lesson that was.

I guess that is the sad part in all of this. You absolutely need to protect yourself I just struggle with the whole trust factor. But I also come from a background of your take what you earned. I couldn't in good conscience take half of someone's property I had no part in acquiring (I understanding getting back what you put in). I had a friend get screwed over when he pumped a significant inheritance into paying of his house he bought before marriage and she split and took half shortly after.

It is rough out there. I am one of the lucky ones I guess, I have nothing for anyone to take.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I get that many people think that, but if you think like that, why would you do a will until you are quite old?

Now, two young people without much likely don't need an agreement, as if they break up, everything should be 50/50 anyway.

But these days people often have accumulated some assets prior to marriage or living together. It simply makes sense as to how those are going to be divided up in the case of a breakup.

The odds suggest very strongly that there will be a breakup.

In my experience the person with the less money/earning potential is the one who feels that it's "unromantic" to consider such matters in advance.

Marriage or living together is a business arrangement between two people who presumably love each other. They have purposely decided to live under a system of laws which will govern their relationship. Entering into an agreement which will help define those laws and its application to their particular living arrangements is simply a responsible thing to do.

it's not about screwing anyone. It's about hoping that by entering into an agreement, parties who are no longer getting along will save a ton of money by agreeing to things in advance when they are getting along.

Let's face it. If two parties who are deciding to get married can't agree as to how future assets are going to be divided, what chance to those people who now may hate each other have of agreeing to an amicable split? In those circumstances, only the two lawyers will benefit.

Wills protect families though not individuals so I see a big difference there.

I understand what you are saying but I and I assume many others did not go into a relationship thinking about business and hoping for romance. I just wanted some poon tang and everything else was just noise. But I was quite young and didn't have anything to worry about.

I am not disagreeing with a prenup or co-habitation agreement I just think they are difficult to broach and they themselves can cause issues. I have no advice here just ramblings and curiosity.

[DuffMan]

I had 2 friends that ended up together, and I knew her a lot longer than I knew him.
She owned a house, when he moved in, they were there for a couple of years, sold moved to Kelowna, bought(not sure of financials there, but I think she was owner, he was renter) and it ended a year or 2 later.

He left with 50% value of current house. Thought it was a dick move on his part, I haven't talked to him since.

He did not seem like the type of person to do that, but more like the type of person to just walk away with whatever he could carry. you never know

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

Wills protect families though not individuals so I see a big difference there.

I understand what you are saying but I and I assume many others did not go into a relationship thinking about business and hoping for romance. I just wanted some poon tang and everything else was just noise. But I was quite young and didn't have anything to worry about.

I am not disagreeing with a prenup or co-habitation agreement I just think they are difficult to broach and they themselves can cause issues. I have no advice here just ramblings and curiosity.

Often for two people with little in the way of assets a pre-nup is likely not a big deal,.

But if one person has a ton of assets going in, it might be unfair to have the other person get half of the value of the increase, simply because the dollars are great.

It's much easier to turn $10M into $20M than $1M into $11M, even though the net gain in each case is $10M.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Although that is changing as of Jan 1, 2020.

Details?

[troutman]

COMMON LAW COUPLES AS GOOD AS MARRIED COME JANUARY, 2020

https://dbblaw.com/common-law-couple...anuary-2020-2/

Alberta will join British Columbia, Manitoba and Saskatchewan in providing people in Adult Interdependent Partnerships (“AIP”) with property rights equivalent to those enjoyed by married spouses.

Bill 28: the Family Statutes Amendment Act serves to update the Matrimonial Property Act (“MPA”) to make it easier for people in AIP to divide their property if their relationship breaks down. This new legislation which will come into force on January 1, 2020 extends property division rules, found in the MPA, to couples in AIP (also known as common law partnerships) under Alberta’s Adult Interdependent Relationships Act. Generally these rules mean that property acquired during a relationship is divided equally if that relationship ends.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Often for two people with little in the way of assets a pre-nup is likely not a big deal,.

But if one person has a ton of assets going in, it might be unfair to have the other person get half of the value of the increase, simply because the dollars are great.

It's much easier to turn $10M into $20M than $1M into $11M, even though the net gain in each case is $10M.

In the case of big money absolutely, a prenup or any sort of agreement is a must. I guess even now a small apartment can be worth a small fortune depending on when it is bought and sold.

[CrazyCaper]

I'm getting married for the 2nd time this August. We've been together for 4yrs and living together for 2. After the challenges I faced during my first marriage breakdown, I didn't hesitate when she approached me to sign a pre-nup. She was worried about protecting her assets and I don't blame her. She's 37, never been married, no kids. She's built up quite a nest-egg and is due to inherit a substantial estate from her family.
I didn't ask her to marry me knowing this but she also should be protected. I came into our relationship with significantly less but she's never made me feel bad. We contribute to the mortgage and monthly expenses as equals, even though, the house we share is technically in her name.
Getting married is very similar to a business partnership with some better perks.
Hope it works out for the two of you.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CrazyCaper

I'm getting married for the 2nd time this August. We've been together for 4yrs and living together for 2. After the challenges I faced during my first marriage breakdown, I didn't hesitate when she approached me to sign a pre-nup. She was worried about protecting her assets and I don't blame her. She's 37, never been married, no kids. She's built up quite a nest-egg and is due to inherit a substantial estate from her family.
I didn't ask her to marry me knowing this but she also should be protected. I came into our relationship with significantly less but she's never made me feel bad. We contribute to the mortgage and monthly expenses as equals, even though, the house we share is technically in her name.
Getting married is very similar to a business partnership with some better perks.
Hope it works out for the two of you.

Any reason you don't get yourself added to the title?

[CrazyCaper]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Any reason you don't get yourself added to the title?

My divorce damaged my credit rating and we likely wouldn't have qualified for the house we're in today. It's getting better everyday and the intention is to add me to the mortgage when it's due for renewal.

[Cube Inmate]

It grinds my gears how the term "common law" is being used in the context of statutory law. E.g., income tax acts, adult interdependent partners act, matrimonial property act.... Common law and statutory law are completely different things.

Common law marriage is a real marriage, entered into willingly and intentionally by the partners -- just without religious or government sanction. But according to Wikipedia, that's not a recognized thing in Canada. So all these references are actually to statutory definitions of relationships and the responsibilities incurred.

Semantics, I know. IANAL. Also, I am anal about language.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by troutman

COMMON LAW COUPLES AS GOOD AS MARRIED COME JANUARY, 2020

https://dbblaw.com/common-law-couple...anuary-2020-2/

Well that's unfortunate.

So let's hypothetically say I'm living with someone now. Is it still possible to have a cohabitation agreement made up before 2020? Or would it be essentially useless after the changes anyway?

[CaptainYooh]

I never researched any history on marital law; but it always bothered me that in the absence of pre-nuptial agreement, family assets become common property the next minute a couple says "I do" or after some imaginary time threshold of co-habitation in sin. When people marry young with no money and start growing their family wealth together, I fully accept it, even when one spouse doesn't earn any income. But when one spouse brings significant assets into the marriage, simply giving the other 50% of those assets by default is not right. Lots of real life drama about this, obviously. Say, a young man works hard, saves on a downpayment and then starts living with a girlfriend (like the OP). How is it fair to have her eligible for half (or even all of it!) if they break up after a year of living together? From personal experience, we bought an apartment for our son when he went away to study. Soon, he met a girl there and she moved in with him. They lived together for almost a full year. If we did buy the apartment in his name, she could have asked for the half of its value (or more?). Thank G-d, we didn't, but we did discuss the pro's and con's at some point!

I would have liked to see that the right to a half of pre-marital assets of a spouse "earned" over time at some fair pace, I don't know, like 5% per year of marriage or so...

[troutman]

https://www.lawforalbertawomen.ca/wo...nial-property/

In deciding whether the property should be divided equally, the judge will examine the circumstances of the marriage in light of thirteen factors that are set out in the Matrimonial Property Act:

1. The contribution of each spouse to the marriage and family life;
2. Any contribution, financial or otherwise, to a business or farm which is owned by one or both spouses;
3. Any contribution, financial or otherwise, to the purchase or maintenance of property;
4. The income capacity and financial position of both spouses before and during the marriage and at the time of trial;
5. The length of the marriage;
6. Whether the property was acquired when the spouses were living separate and apart;
   Any agreement between the spouses;
7. A gift or transfer of property to a third person;
8. A previous court order;
9. A previous distribution of property;
10. Tax liabilities incurred on the transfer or sale of property;
11. The waste or destruction of property by one spouse;
12. Any relevant fact.

[CaptainYooh]

This criteria above is very broad and seem fair. But is has all this "otherwise" stuff in it, which gives judges all the discretion in the world to award pretty much whatever they feel like awarding. I know this is UK and not Canadian, but Heather Mills asking for £125 million after four years of marriage and getting away with £24.3 million is kinda the case in point. Gold-diggers exist and exploit the system.

[TorqueDog]

We got a cohab before moving in together and a pre-nup once we were engaged. We both look at it like having insurance; you hope you never use it, but you're sure glad you have it if you should ever come to need it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by DownhillGoat

Well that's unfortunate.

So let's hypothetically say I'm living with someone now. Is it still possible to have a cohabitation agreement made up before 2020? Or would it be essentially useless after the changes anyway?

Yes. Get a prenup right away. Anything you sign now, even though you are already living together, will not be considered useless, and the prenup will likely be treated the same as one you'd signed before moving in.