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Old 06-02-2019, 06:56 AM   #21
4X4
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Well there's no denying we sure are jaded around here lol.

On that note in 17 days I will be giving my ex wife 100,000$ so I would probably listen to the advice.
So, love is grand; divorce is a hundred grand?
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Old 06-02-2019, 07:07 AM   #22
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Honestly, I'm a huge weirdo, but I firmly believe in never living with anyone ever.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:51 AM   #23
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It seems to me that only a small % of people that breakup after living together but before marriage would try to take legal action. While this depends greatly on the circumstance and the individuals, I think many people in this situation are happy to go their separate ways and generally don't have large financial assets that would justify the cost of lawyers, etc.
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:55 PM   #24
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Honestly, I'm a huge weirdo, but I firmly believe in never living with anyone ever.
I don't think I could again these days, I like not having to ask what kind of curtains the front rooms getting or whether its ok to spend 3,000 on a cd player
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:56 PM   #25
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I don't think I could again these days, I like not having to ask what kind of curtains the front rooms getting or whether its ok to spend 3,000 on a cd player
This qualifies as inciting divorce. Stop it!
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:58 PM   #26
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I don't think I could again these days, I like not having to ask what kind of curtains the front rooms getting or whether its ok to spend 3,000 on a cd player
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Old 06-02-2019, 01:10 PM   #27
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'I know 3000 seems a lot honey but that's second hand, trust me its a bargain, new it would be 7000!
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Old 06-02-2019, 02:10 PM   #28
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I would think long and hard about this before you bring it up. I have broached the subject a couple of times, and it went over like a lead ballon. The responses were “I can’t believe you don’t trust me”, “Do you think I am after your money?”, “I don’t want your money, but I’m not signing a pre-nup”. Once it is out there, there is no putting the toothpaste back in the tube.

Hire a lawyer, bring in your asset list, see what your options are.

From talking with a lawyer and my interpretation of the interdependent act (I am not a lawyer), the rule of thumb is half of the net asset value increase. There were four things that can be exempt; insurance payouts, inheritances, and if I remember correctly non-common investment accounts, and the fourth may be previous pensions. Read the act and talk about this with your lawyer. It talked about traceability of money. If money is moving from “family” accounts to investment accounts, you may be in trouble.

If you are a farmer or have a business, a co-hab may be necessary.

The next time I am in the situation where I want to make sure I am protected, I will be visiting a lawyer and sorting out how I should structure my assets. For example, if I was with her for 5 years and my house went from 500k to 600k, I would agree she is entitled to 50k of the gain, but if my previously held investment accounts went from 500k to 1 million or if I received an inheritance, I would be a upset if I had to give her half of the gain.

In short, see a lawyer before you do anything!
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Old 06-02-2019, 03:06 PM   #29
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I would think long and hard about this before you bring it up. I have broached the subject a couple of times, and it went over like a lead ballon. The responses were “I can’t believe you don’t trust me”, “Do you think I am after your money?”, “I don’t want your money, but I’m not signing a pre-nup”. Once it is out there, there is no putting the toothpaste back in the tube.
Certainly you want to consider how you discuss the topic (certainly consider how it will be received and perceived), but any hesitation on whether or not to discuss it should be a red flag. It may not be an easy or comfortable discussion (an emotional reaction on either side is not unreasonable), but whether you can eventually resolve the discussion sensibly is a pretty good test of whether the relationship is in fact likely to stand the test of time. Approaching it as a 'discussion' is critical - it is for the benefit and protection of both parties...while it shouldn't necessarily be a 'negotiation', both sides should be willing to compromise.

It boils down to being a simple 'insurance' condition that helps one (or both) parties feel more comfortable. If the other person can't engage with the idea of compromising their own ideals to do something beneficial for their partner, then it's usually not a recipe for success.
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:23 AM   #30
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Try to get it to be their idea to get the pre-nup. Maybe make a few comments about how you're impressed with how much money they have in their bank account and it would be great to have half of it one day.
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Old 06-03-2019, 05:48 AM   #31
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Try to get it to be their idea to get the pre-nup. Maybe make a few comments about how you're impressed with how much money they have in their bank account and it would be great to have half of it one day.
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:53 AM   #32
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also, bang her sister, to see what the reaction is, that could answer a lot of questions you may have to make a big decision like this.
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:06 AM   #33
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So this is anecdotal from a friends situation that went badly but she was entitled to half the appreciation of the Common assets plus a share of the capital that was paid into the mortgage. Effectively once common law all money put toward the mortgage was joint money regardless of if she paid for the mortgage or was just paying other bills.

Edit: reading your link I think this makes sense as one possible outcome. I was not aware that the 6 months thing did not apply in Alberta. Either way seeing a lawyer before moving in with someone is probably good advice.
Are you sure she was entitled to half of the full value of the property? Or half of what has appreciated since she moved in? Because from what I understand, she's only entitled to half of value gain after she moves in.

So if the house was worth $400K when she moved in, but worth $500K when she moved out, she's entitled to half of $100K, not $500K. Kids would probably make it a lot more complicated though.
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:12 AM   #34
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Are you sure she was entitled to half of the full value of the property? Or half of what has appreciated since she moved in? Because from what I understand, she's only entitled to half of value gain after she moves in.

So if the house was worth $400K when she moved in, but worth $500K when she moved out, she's entitled to half of $100K, not $500K. Kids would probably make it a lot more complicated though.
Thats essentially what he said. Half of the appreciation, but also half of the money going towards it.

Which leads to another important thing: if you have them pay rent, make them pay market value. It can save a lot of head aches.

But really if you are concerned someone is going to come after your #### if you break up you shouldn't be moving in together anyway.
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Old 06-03-2019, 09:54 AM   #35
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There are more issues than just the appreciation of your separate assets. Constructive trusts, spousal support, child support, estate law. The law is evolving to a point where I can see common law spouses will eventually have the same rights as married spouses.

If you can't get your partner to sign a cohab agreement, at least have your own lawyer explain the law to you.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:17 AM   #36
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You should sign pre-nups / cohabitation agreement. That can protect your assets you are bringing into the marriage

Even with one after six months you become common law and have all the liabilities of marriage.

Then you need to define things like rent. Even with a pre-nup if she is paying into the mortgage or paying bills in place of paying the mortgage she could be entitled to her share of the property she paid down and potentially appreciation of the property.

So if you do nothing and things go south she could be entitled to portions of your assets and even depending on length spousal support. Everyone should talk to a lawyer before moving in or getting married if they have assists.
Actually the Matrimonial Property Act only applies to legally married couples, so there is no automatic division of matrimonial property. The common law spouse claiming an interest in the other's property would need to make a claim for unjust enrichment, which is a long process.

Although that is changing as of Jan 1, 2020.

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Old 06-04-2019, 09:04 AM   #37
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Yikes, so much has changed. Whatever happened to sleeping on your buddies couch for a few weeks while you look for a new place after the girlfriend kicks you out?

I get that people need to protect themselves and their money but it almost sounds like a defeatist attitude going in. I didn't worry about such things when I first shacked up with a lady I was just happy it was going to be a lot easier to have sex and I didn't have anything better to do at the time.

Now, the second (maybe third) time around it was different as I figured there was a future there but money and assets still never came into play. Granted, that was over 20 years ago. Tough situation. Relationships are all about trust and I can see people taking exception to being asked to sign one but you still need to protect yourself. Man...

Basically I got nothing. Good luck young man.

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Old 06-04-2019, 09:12 AM   #38
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I will never forget these immortal words from my father when I was a young man:

Son, if you can find a woman who can tolerate you for more than five minutes at a time, cling to her like #### on a shovel.

I've lived by those words ever since.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:42 AM   #39
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I get that people need to protect themselves and their money but it almost sounds like a defeatist attitude going in.
I get that many people think that, but if you think like that, why would you do a will until you are quite old?

Now, two young people without much likely don't need an agreement, as if they break up, everything should be 50/50 anyway.

But these days people often have accumulated some assets prior to marriage or living together. It simply makes sense as to how those are going to be divided up in the case of a breakup.

The odds suggest very strongly that there will be a breakup.

In my experience the person with the less money/earning potential is the one who feels that it's "unromantic" to consider such matters in advance.

Marriage or living together is a business arrangement between two people who presumably love each other. They have purposely decided to live under a system of laws which will govern their relationship. Entering into an agreement which will help define those laws and its application to their particular living arrangements is simply a responsible thing to do.

it's not about screwing anyone. It's about hoping that by entering into an agreement, parties who are no longer getting along will save a ton of money by agreeing to things in advance when they are getting along.

Let's face it. If two parties who are deciding to get married can't agree as to how future assets are going to be divided, what chance to those people who now may hate each other have of agreeing to an amicable split? In those circumstances, only the two lawyers will benefit.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:49 AM   #40
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Yikes, so much has changed. Whatever happened to sleeping on your buddies couch for a few weeks while you look for a new place after the girlfriend kicks you out?

I get that people need to protect themselves and their money but it almost sounds like a defeatist attitude going in. I didn't worry about such things when I first shacked up with a lady I was just happy it was going to be a lot easier to have sex and I didn't have anything better to do at the time.

Now, the second (maybe third) time around it was different as I figured there was a future there but money and assets still never came into play. Granted, that was over 20 years ago. Tough situation. Relationships are all about trust and I can see people taking exception to being asked to sign one but you still need to protect yourself. Man...

Basically I got nothing. Good luck young man.

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Things have changed. People settle down with a partner later in life than they used to do will likely have more assets than what they couch surf with. People co-habit longer before marriage than they used to, including forever.
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