Friedman's 31 - June 25. Dougie's role. Rieder UFA. Flames interested in Zucker?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

This is interesting to me. It says they wanted to reunite Gio-Brodie and give Hamonic a less free lancing partner - it does not say pair Hamilton with Hamonic.

Why would they would they want to reunite that combo when Gio-Hamilton was statistically a top pair?

Would it have put Hamilton on third pairing?

I think they rightly viewed both Gio and Hamilton as top quality defenders. Knowing that Gio has had very good success with Brodie prior, and the fact that the second pairing of Brodie and Hamonic wasn’t working, why WOULDNT you try it?

Gio stirs the drink on his pairing, he allows others to excel, and Hamilton is offensively gifted and more predictable than Brodie. Splitting up Gio/Hamilton to try and strengthen your top for should’ve absolutely been a no-brainer.

I don’t think a coach’s job is to find a great pair. A coach’s job is to find 3 solid pairs. If you loose a little off the top pair but gain it back + more on your second pair, you split em.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

This is interesting to me. It says they wanted to reunite Gio-Brodie and give Hamonic a less free lancing partner - it does not say pair Hamilton with Hamonic.

Why would they would they want to reunite that combo when Gio-Hamilton was statistically a top pair?

Would it have put Hamilton on third pairing?

I think its about Maximizing Brodie's value. That's the hidden value of the Hamilton trade if he was unwilling or unable to carry his own pair and Brodano returns to its former effectiveness then you hold steady on the first pairing and improve the 2nd pairing and add a forward.

Even keeping Hamilton if you believed that the Brodano pairing didn't lose anything to the Gio/Hamilton and that Hamilton could improve the 2nd / 3rd pairing you have a net improvement of your defense. You might also improve Hamiltons offense by getting him away from the other teams top line.

I can see why Peters would want to pursue this option with or without the trade. Its a big gamble on Brodie regaining his form by playing with Gio.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

This is interesting to me. It says they wanted to reunite Gio-Brodie and give Hamonic a less free lancing partner - it does not say pair Hamilton with Hamonic.

Why would they would they want to reunite that combo when Gio-Hamilton was statistically a top pair?

Would it have put Hamilton on third pairing?

Which isnt a bad thing.

An intelligent coach would have thought:

"Hey, I have really solid pairings, I can put the more offensive Defenceman on the third pairing, likely when their bottom forward lines are out and maybe balance some offence at the same time."

But no. We had to play the Gulutzan way.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

How does Dougie come across as a "me first" guy here?

Gio-Hamilton was the best pair in the league last year. That pair helps the team win.

The Flames PP was putrid last season, partly because of strategy, but also because of player usage. Why Dougie wasn't on PP1 is absolutely mind-boggling.

So call it selfish if you want, but Dougie in both these roles helped the team win.

The team didn't win though...could have balanced out the top four. Also the PP was like 1 for 50 to end the season and gave up a couple shorties. It's not like he turned it around.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Locke

Which isnt a bad thing.

An intelligent coach would have thought:

"Hey, I have really solid pairings, I can put the more offensive Defenceman on the third pairing, likely when their bottom forward lines are out and maybe balance some offence at the same time."

But no. We had to play the Gulutzan way.

Didn't Brent Sutter try that strategy?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

So the Flames considered Hamilton a steadier partner for Hamonic. Kind of goes against a lot of the bad takes here that Dougie wasn’t solid defensively and that Gio was carrying him.

Seems like a bit of a leap. Who was gonna play LD on that pairing?

As soon as they made the decision to move Brodie back to the right we’d have too many right shot dmen. I don’t think any of Hamonic, Stone or Hamilton would’ve excelled in their off side. Basically once they decided to move Brodie back with Gio you had to trade one of Hamilton, Hamonic or Stone. And it sounds like Dougie wanted out if he wasn’t on the top pairing. Too big of a hit to his points.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The team didn't win though...could have balanced out the top four. Also the PP was like 1 for 50 to end the season and gave up a couple shorties. It's not like he turned it around.

So we blame the season on him, despite him being statistically one of the very best defencemen in the entire league?

This is our Hall trade. Not to the same degree, but embarrassing nonetheless.

[GoJetsGo]

Between Treliving identifying Brodie as a core piece at a recent STH chat and the recent talk he's being reunited with Gio that is certainly going to ruffle the feathers of a certain small but extremely vocal minority on this board.

Really hope we don't see thread after thread derailed with foaming at the mouth Brodie hate as this season gets closer.

For better or for worse TJ looks like he's here and going to be relied upon in a big way. I still look back to him being one of our best players when Gio went down and we beat Vancouver in the playoffs a couple years back and both hope / think he can get back to that level. Will certainly be rooting for him. He can be a difference maker.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

So we blame the season on him, despite him being statistically one of the very best defencemen in the entire league?

This is our Hall trade. Not to the same degree, but embarrassing nonetheless.

No we blamed the season on GG quite clearly.

Don’t see the parallels with the Hall trade at all. Hanifin can be as good or better than Hamilton in the future.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

So we blame the season on him, despite him being statistically one of the very best defencemen in the entire league?

This is our Hall trade. Not to the same degree, but embarrassing nonetheless.

Lol, this is our Hall trade?

Get a grip.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

I’m not getting the Rieder love in. Another 3rd line RW? Is he an upgrade over Frolik? Can’t create a logjam without upgrading the position.

He's also a left handed shot. I could see if he was a right handed shot.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Lol, this is our Hall trade?

Get a grip.

We trade an elite player for players we hope can fill a void eventually? Good players, but players who aren't nearly as rare and competent as Hamilton.

Yes, it's very similar. And we saw the character assassination from the Edmonton media following that trade, we're seeing the same now from our own media.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

So we blame the season on him, despite him being statistically one of the very best defencemen in the entire league?

This is our Hall trade. Not to the same degree, but embarrassing nonetheless.

No chance this is our Hall trade and far from embarrassing

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

So we blame the season on him, despite him being statistically one of the very best defencemen in the entire league?

This is our Hall trade. Not to the same degree, but embarrassing nonetheless.

Ha there is no chance Dougie turns into the best defenceman in the league, wins hart and or norris trophies. Guys that are butter soft and compete like he does are nothing more than really good assets.

Both of the players the Flames got back are also a heck of a lot better than that pylon Adam Larsson.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Yes, it's very similar.

No, it's not. That trade was universally mocked among both media and fans, and for good reason.

This trade was largely viewed as very much even by fans and media, with many feeling we won it.

I don't recall any headlines like this about the Oilers:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...raft/36332423/



Not the same at all.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

We trade an elite player for players we hope can fill a void eventually? Good players, but players who aren't nearly as rare and competent as Hamilton.

Yes, it's very similar. And we saw the character assassination from the Edmonton media following that trade, we're seeing the same now from our own media.

They aren't similar at all. The Oilers made a move from an area of perceived strength to add to an area of weakness. They just effed it up, badly.

The Hamilton deal is a bit more of a case of shuffling deck chairs in the hopes of finding better fits. How much we screwed this deal up, if at all, remains to be seen.

[Ashasx]

There is no chance Dougie could win a Norris? No chance one of the best statistical defenders in the game could win a Norris in his future?

Did you think Hall could win a Hart at the time he was traded? Dougie is probably further along to winning a Norris than Hall was to winning a Hart at the time of their trades.

This forum is embarrassing itself. We are doing exactly what Oilers fans did in 2016 and we don't even see it. The same things we made fun of them for in the E=NG thread, we are doing ourselves.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Ha there is no chance Dougie turns into the best defenceman in the league, wins hart and or norris trophies. Guys that are butter soft and compete like he does are nothing more than really good assets.

Both of the players the Flames got back are also a heck of a lot better than that pylon Adam Larsson.

Ordinarily I'd agree with you, but if this isnt the 'kick in the ass' wakeup call that he needs then you're right.

But being on his third team in short order might be the impetus he requires to get his game together.

He has all the tools. Hes just refusing to use them.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

This forum is embarrassing itself. We are doing exactly what Oilers fans did in 2016 and we don't even see it. The same things we made fun of them for in the E=NG thread, we are doing ourselves.

The only one embarrassing themselves is you stomping and shouting comparing this to one of the worst trades in recent memory when it's nowhere near that.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

They aren't similar at all. The Oilers made a move from an area of perceived strength to add to an area of weakness. They just effed it up, badly.

The Hamilton deal is a bit more of a case of shuffling deck chairs in the hopes of finding better fits. How much we screwed this deal up, if at all, remains to be seen.

That makes it even worse. We traded one of our most valuable trade pieces and we didn't even satisfy the team's most significant need. We downgraded our defense, upgraded our forwards, but offensively the team looks no better - worse perhaps if the production from Hamilton + Ferland > Hanifin + Lindholm.

Add to that, we significantly downgraded on our prospect pool. Nothing in this deal makes sense.