Sam Bennett '17/'18 - 5v5 linemates/production (WARNING: Silly Sample Size)

[Flash Walken]

how can you bennett-jankowski be a good player pair at the same time you make the argument that Bennett does not have good enough players to play with (which I agree with)?

Is a player that needs to play with good players to be above average that good of a player?

Is the argument that Bennett would probably produce as much as ferland on the top line an argument for how good Bennett is or is it an argument that Ferland is replacement level or is it an argument that Monahan and gaudreau are underappreciated for their ability to drag substandard linemates to career years?

The other aspect is, what is the link between points per 60 and penalties per 60?

Bennett is clearly the best player on the third line, but in my opinion, is not good enough to displace anyone in the top 6 from their current roles. This includes Ferland, who in my opinion is the weakest member of Calgary's top 6.

It appears as though Ferland and Bennett miss the net to the same degree, but Ferland takes significantly less penalties per 60 than Bennett.

Is Bennett the worst mix of points per 60, shots on net and penalties per 60 on the roster? Is THAT what is keeping from playing more than 15 mins per game?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by CSharp

I already knew my response is not going to go well

This is where I stop reading. I was expecting you to start with some sort of apology for basically posting the way you did earlier and getting called out for it.

Now you think your response didn't go well because you are in disagreement?

Yeah, there is no point in reading any further.

This is what I have been doing on CP in general these last few weeks. I don't care how long or short a post is, but as soon as I encounter pissy posts, too much in the way of personal attacks, or just annoying smugness, I just stop reading and move onto the next post. I don't usually bother to reply, but your post was nothing other than designed to stir up a reaction, and you knew it.

It isn't because it is "telling it like it is to these Bennett fanboys"... It is just a pure trollish and annoying post that brings down the discussion on CP.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

how can you bennett-jankowski be a good player pair at the same time you make the argument that Bennett does not have good enough players to play with (which I agree with)?

Besides that half a game with Matthew Tkachuk,

Because the best player that pair played with cleared waivers and is no longer in the NHL.

Because the second best player that pair played with probably belongs in the AHL, or at best a fourth line.

Because the third best player that pair played with has two goals this season, and both of them were scored in the month of February, and that line was together in November.

And because the fourth best player that pair played with is Troy Brouwer.

Is a player that needs to play with good players to be above average that good of a player?

What good player in the NHL plays with fourth line and AHL talent?

Is the argument that Bennett would probably produce as much as ferland on the top line an argument for how good Bennett is or is it an argument that Ferland is replacement level or is it an argument that Monahan and gaudreau are underappreciated for their ability to drag substandard linemates to career years?

Bennett is very good, and Ferland is pretty good. Ferland is not replacement level and Bennett is not replacement level. Monahan and Gaudreau could not drag around the Alex Chiassons and Chris Stewarts of the world.

The other aspect is, what is the link between points per 60 and penalties per 60?

per 60 stats are typically 5v5. They impacted when a player is in the penalty box, since that isn't 5v5.

Bennett is clearly the best player on the third line, but in my opinion, is not good enough to displace anyone in the top 6 from their current roles. This includes Ferland, who in my opinion is the weakest member of Calgary's top 6.

That would be Frolik by a country mile.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

how can you bennett-jankowski be a good player pair at the same time you make the argument that Bennett does not have good enough players to play with (which I agree with)?

Is a player that needs to play with good players to be above average that good of a player?

Is the argument that Bennett would probably produce as much as ferland on the top line an argument for how good Bennett is or is it an argument that Ferland is replacement level or is it an argument that Monahan and gaudreau are underappreciated for their ability to drag substandard linemates to career years?

The other aspect is, what is the link between points per 60 and penalties per 60?

Bennett is clearly the best player on the third line, but in my opinion, is not good enough to displace anyone in the top 6 from their current roles. This includes Ferland, who in my opinion is the weakest member of Calgary's top 6.

It appears as though Ferland and Bennett miss the net to the same degree, but Ferland takes significantly less penalties per 60 than Bennett.

Is Bennett the worst mix of points per 60, shots on net and penalties per 60 on the roster? Is THAT what is keeping from playing more than 15 mins per game?

I think it’s more that ferland’s ceiling over his entire career is likely lower than Bennett’s. Now I might get killed on here for saying this but Bennett’s pedigree, draft position and skills all point to a guy who likely tops out much better as a player than ferkland. I think we are seeing ferkland playing at 85-90% of his potential this season, whereas Bennett still looks like he’s got a lot more roomto grow. The frustration stems from the coaching staff not giving him as big a chance or enough minutes of ice time to truly realize that potential.

Time will tell I suppose.

[jlh2640]

Give him an extended look for sure.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I think it’s more that ferland’s ceiling over his entire career is likely lower than Bennett’s. Now I might get killed on here for saying this but Bennett’s pedigree, draft position and skills all point to a guy who likely tops out much better as a player than ferkland. I think we are seeing ferkland playing at 85-90% of his potential this season, whereas Bennett still looks like he’s got a lot more roomto grow. The frustration stems from the coaching staff not giving him as big a chance or enough minutes of ice time to truly realize that potential.

Time will tell I suppose.

They are close, one has attributes the other lacks. For example, Bennett will never be hulk strong like Ferland.

When fit and playing well I like Ferland on the 1st, you can't argue with his numbers. He produces and provides some policing. In the 2018 there are not a lot of guys that can go toe to toe with Ferland likely to be playing against Flames 1st line.

Bennett makes sense when Ferland has a bad stretch and coach wants to send a message by taking him away from Johnny and Money. Or like now, Ferland is hurt.

Next year Janko will be able to carry more weight on the 3rd and Bennett will benefit. I'm counting on those two becoming one of the Flames pairs. If not Janko, maybe Shore.

[Jiggy]

Give Bennett time to develop. Philly fans wanted to get rid of Sean Couturier the past few years and now things are finally coming together for him.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I think it’s more that ferland’s ceiling over his entire career is likely lower than Bennett’s. Now I might get killed on here for saying this but Bennett’s pedigree, draft position and skills all point to a guy who likely tops out much better as a player than ferkland. I think we are seeing ferkland playing at 85-90% of his potential this season, whereas Bennett still looks like he’s got a lot more roomto grow. The frustration stems from the coaching staff not giving him as big a chance or enough minutes of ice time to truly realize that potential.

Time will tell I suppose.

I have extremely high hopes for Bennett. He needs to be more consistent in his
growth, though.
His confidence will come from doing the little things right on a consistent basis. He is primarily responsible for building those confidence blocks, not the coach blowing smoke up his ass when undeserved. Discipline, details and mental strength need to be better if Sam wants to become a core player.

See Tkachuk Gaudreau and Monahan.

All of them are big time line drivers

Sam has cost the team more losses than he has been a cog in winning this season. Discipline, poor decisions etc.

The NHL is not primarily or secondarily a development league. It is a stand up, sit down or get out of the way league.

Players and coaches get paid big money for performing to expectations and winning. Period.

Time to step up and make a statement consistently . No matter who your line mates are. Be a driver.

You were a 4th overall pick. Time to show it.

[JJFlash]

I like Sam, I really do. But I was expecting a player like Braden Point. You know, a high energy player that could put up offence and play a smart game. In fact, I think most experts would have expected Bennett to be a Gilmour , Barzal or Point type player. The way I see it the biggest void in Bennett's game is the processing. He does not process the game 2 plays ahead like Matty, Point or Barzal.. I am not sure he will get to that level.

If you look at the type of goals he scores (with exception of his 4 goal game), he scores banging and crashing 4th line type goals. His toe drag off the rush is Junior level and rarely works. He does not play with his head up when he is in tight. Personally, I think Janko is a much better driver of play. If you look at the goals Janko has scored he demonstrates more of a scoring touch. I think he will have a higher ceiling. Janko's major short coming is he does not get his shot off quick enough which is common in rookies. Because of his size he does not seem like he is moving his legs al the time.

[Gaskal]

It's fitting that "Bennie and the Jets" finally emerge onto the same line as "Mony Mony" and "Johnny B Goode".

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Besides that half a game with Matthew Tkachuk,

Because the best player that pair played with cleared waivers and is no longer in the NHL.

Because the second best player that pair played with probably belongs in the AHL, or at best a fourth line.

Because the third best player that pair played with has two goals this season, and both of them were scored in the month of February, and that line was together in November.

And because the fourth best player that pair played with is Troy Brouwer.



What good player in the NHL plays with fourth line and AHL talent?



Bennett is very good, and Ferland is pretty good. Ferland is not replacement level and Bennett is not replacement level. Monahan and Gaudreau could not drag around the Alex Chiassons and Chris Stewarts of the world.



per 60 stats are typically 5v5. They impacted when a player is in the penalty box, since that isn't 5v5.



That would be Frolik by a country mile.

*sigh*

If Bennett takes the most penalties on the team with less than 15 minutes of icetime, is it even possible to play him on the top line that sees 18-20?

Does he take the 2nd/3rd most penalties on the team because of his linemates too?

Backlund has more than 400 more minutes on the ice this year than Bennett and has the same amount of minors. Bennett has taken 3x as many minors this year as Ferland. Could that be a factor in who plays where?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

*sigh*

If Bennett takes the most penalties on the team with less than 15 minutes of icetime, is it even possible to play him on the top line that sees 18-20?

Does he take the 2nd/3rd most penalties on the team because of his linemates too?

Backlund has more than 400 more minutes on the ice this year than Bennett and has the same amount of minors. Bennett has taken 3x as many minors this year as Ferland. Could that be a factor in who plays where?

It is not correct to automatically assume that his penalties per 60 would remain at the same pace if he were on a different line with a different role.

The third line does a lot of on-the-boards mucking. The top line has a lot more play on the rush and up the middle of the ice.

Tonight has been a good example - the line has had the puck more, and has been generating more offensive play, than the third line does.

Who you play with, and the role you have, matters.

[Calgary4LIfe]

IIRC, Bennett went about 2 straight months without taking a minor this season. That's when he is producing.

The problem with Bennett is confidence, and then when things aren't going right, he starts trying to do too much.

I don't know.. I watch Bennett play, and I see a tough-as-nails player always being one of the hardest workers on the ice from either team, and doing a tonne of things right. I posted this last season, and I will say it again - there are a number of things I worry about when it comes to the Flames, but Sam Bennett is not one of them.

If he was flailing away like Baertschi was, or showed no skill like Bouma, I would be having a different discussion. I see a kid who really does have a high ceiling from his combination of skill and physicality (seriously, not many guys are going to screw around with him as he continues to mature), and you see it often, even when it isn't showing up on the scoresheet.

It will come around. Problem is the Flames had Monahan and Tkachuk doing so well right out of the draft, and Gaudreau quickly after he left college, and think: "Those guys did it... something's wrong with Bennett". Not everyone has the timeline. I see progression, I see a tonne of hard work and trying to play the right way (like him being rather solid defensively), and I still see the skill on display and his ability to constantly win one-on-one battles all over the ice against veterans that are much bigger than he is.

He is a gamer with skill, and I bet on him to eventually get there. Better linemates will help. Stable linemates will help too. However, get there he will.

[Dajazz]

I have high hopes for Bennett, he's behind my expecation curve, but hey - I'm not a pro scout. I don't think he'll ever live up to his draft position or hype, but he'll be a serviceable middle six player.

[Flash Walken]

I don't think you're recalling correctly.

Bennett didn't take a penalty for 14 consecutive games between november 19th-december 14th. Pretty impressive, honestly.

He scored 3 goals and 8 points over those 14 games. He played less than his season average icetime in 7 of those 14 games.

As far as I see, his second longest streak without a penalty is 6 games that ended in the game against Dallas.

Between November 1st and February 1st Bennett was 5th on the team in minors with 9. Backlund and Hathaway were tied for first over that span with 13 each. Brouwer and Tkachuk notable with just 4 minors each over that span. Over those 38 games, 20 of them were icetime below his season average. He scored 19 points, tied for 6th on the team with Hamilton and Giordano. That's a 41 point pace. Respectable, but he wasn't exactly shooting the lights out either. 7th on the team in goals during that span with 7, again tied with Dougie. Tkachuk scored 14 and Ferland and Monahan set the pace with 16 apiece.

I don't expect him to be a Byng nominee but let's at least stick with some reality here.