Will the legacy of Ovechkin be that of a choker?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

Ovechkin
Backstrom
Oshie
Kuznetzov
Johanssen
Williams
Alzner
Carlson
Orlov
Shattenkirk
Holtby

Former players:

Semin, Green when they were elite
Laich, Ward, Brouwer in their prime
Neuvirth, Ribeiro and Wideman when they were good
Vokoun

Backstrom is the only consistently good player on that list. He's good, but far from a generational difference maker type player. Players like Green and Semin have also shown themselves to quitters on multiple teams other than Washington.

Saying a team should be guaranteed to make the finals because they have players like Brouwer, Laich, etc... is absurd. It's really hard to make the finals and not only does it take a complete team but a lot things to go right.

I agree that the Capitals should have gone further than they did a few seasons. They've also had bad luck running into totally dominant Penguins teams in the playoffs multiple times.

[Tinordi]

Where does Ovechkin rank for all-time goal scorers?

Gretzky, Lemieux, then Ovechkin is right in the conversation.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I put Bossy, Richard, and Juinor Hull all above AO in terms of goal scoring.
Considered Elder Hull but will keep him off that list.

[doctajones428]

Originally Posted by blankall

Saying a team should be guaranteed to make the finals because they have players like Brouwer, Laich, etc... is absurd.

It's absurd to suggest some of the very best role/two way players and depth at the time would help them make the finals consistently? You're underestimating how good these guys were in their prime

[CSharp]

Hockey is a team sport. No one person on any team can do it all unless if you're playing a new team from Barbados or Jamaica. Anyone from a Sharks and the Flames teams can tell you how hard it is to get to the Cup Finals, let alone coming out of the first round. A team that goes to the Finals will need every single player performing at 100% or more. I'm sure Ovie and most of his team mates were performing at that level, but the Pens were better. Injuries and fluky goals play a huge roles in upsets as well.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

I put Bossy, Richard, and Juinor Hull all above AO in terms of goal scoring.
Considered Elder Hull but will keep him off that list.

OV has a higher G/gp than Hull. I definitely would put OV as one of the best goal scorers of all time. His career is far from over and will likely add another schwack of goals to his totals to flirt with 700.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Robbob

OV has a higher G/gp than Hull. I definitely would put OV as one of the best goal scorers of all time. His career is far from over and will likely add another schwack of goals to his totals to flirt with 700.

And don't make me post the goal tender picture again...its WAY harder to score in his era

[Tinordi]

Ovechkin's era-adjusted scoring is top three of all time next to Brett Hull and Wayne.

https://www.nhl.com/news/analytics-s...-ever/c-796548

Not saying the Flames should trade for him but he's clearly a generational player and one of the all time greatest to lace them up.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Not a choker but a guy who doesn't elevate his entire team.
This is partly due to the position his plays (winger) and partly due to the specific skill that he is elite at (goal scoring).
Centres and D have more opportunity to control the entire play and elevate those around them. Wingers and pure goal scorers are less likely to do that.
Even Brett Hull (one of the greatest snipers of all time) was a more complimentary piece on winning teams as opposed to "the man".

I pretty much agree with this.

However, I think Ovechkin's biggest problem is he doesn't play a 200 ft game. There have been hall-of-fame wingers who play a 200 ft game. Shanahan. Hossa. Kurri. OV just can't be arsed. So in a tight game where everything's on the line, Washington's best player is a liability without the puck. That's not a prescription for team championships.

It's also worth remembering that Russia crapped the bed in almost every major tournament in the OV era.

[カナダ人です]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Where does Ovechkin rank for all-time goal scorers?

Gretzky, Lemieux, then Ovechkin is right in the conversation.

No worse than 6th, depending on the 'era' debates:

[thefoss1957]

Choker is a label that is bestowed by sports writers...but, winning championships is hard, (as a Cub fan that watched half a century plus of fail, I know how hard) and skill and luck have to come together, for winning championships can be derailed by many factors, team and individual injuries, hot opposition goaltending, rotten officiating (the Stars Cup winning goal should have been waved off, based on the rule application for every game prior that season). Blaming a LW for being the "choker" is hardly reasonable, as in an extended series, game planning can be focused. Moreover, a forward, even a top line one, only gets less than half a game's ice time. A lot of what goes on on non-Ovi shifts affected outcomes...blame Ovi? hardly.

[Enoch Root]

Not trying to take anything away from Ovechkin - his numbers definitely put him in the all-time discussion for goal scoring - but you have to be careful when trying to compare goals per game against retired players.

They have all had their twilight years, which pull their numbers down. He hasn't. Five years from now, he isn't going to be running at .60 GPG.

So let's hold off on trying to rank him on that chart until we're comparing apples to apples.

[Enoch Root]

Just to add to that with some numbers...

By the same age, Gretzky had played 1009 games and had 749 goals - a .742 GPG pace.

After that, Gretzky played another 478 games and scored 145 goals, a .303 pace.

So comparing Ovechkin's GPG pace to the full career of Gretzky (or anyone else) is somewhat misleading.

[Weitz]

More important is scoring rates IMO.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Caps have never been built for the playoffs. They've never had a #1 defenseman, a 1-2 punch down the middle, and much like the Iginla era, they built their team around a dominate winger.

Backstrom is far better than any center that Iginla had in Calgary though.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by カナダ人です

No worse than 6th, depending on the 'era' debates:

Spoiler!

I always forget about Tim Kerr.