[News] Nakladal is on Waivers - Contract Terminated by CAR

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

But still, signing Grossman instead was inexcusable.
You can argue the reason for signing Grossman and then cancel his contract is to maximize the LTIR cap. But to game the system to save cap space that may or may not be necessary at the end while risking losing games (Grossman had possibly caused the team to lose a point or two), it is pretty stupid.

The signing of Grossman to the contract was excellent. It did everything it was supposed to. The downfall was when Gulutzan played him in regular season games.

[zyzz]

LOL another fine example of how fans wear rose colored glasses

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

Don't really care, to be honest. Nak isn't a viable option at this point.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

The signing of Grossman to the contract was excellent. It did everything it was supposed to. The downfall was when Gulutzan played him in regular season games.

I think there are misunderstandings on this topic.

You can back date the Smid LTIR to the date the injury existed. What matters is when they place him on LTIR.

So yes, they signed Grossman which got them to the cap ceiling, then they placed him, so it ultimately allowed them to use to the extend of the LTIR room, however, they could have just as easily waiting until the extra room was utilized throughout the season, then place him on LTIR, and back date to get the additional room.

At the end of the day, Grossman did not have to be signed. They saw something in him that they felt was missing on the team, hence why he played. He also came at a lower cap hit than any other player available could have to make the team. It didn't work out, but they could have done other things.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

It took me way too long to get this.

And for the love of God, would people stop calling the Grossman contract this brilliant piece of cap management. As has been pointed out, they could have signed a different guy to that deal at a different time. Low risk, yeah I get that. But I'm not too smart so I like to keep it simple.

Good players=good team
Bad players=bad team

I know of which Grossman is an example. Even if he was paying the Flames to play.

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

I think there are misunderstandings on this topic.

You can back date the Smid LTIR to the date the injury existed. What matters is when they place him on LTIR.

So yes, they signed Grossman which got them to the cap ceiling, then they placed him, so it ultimately allowed them to use to the extend of the LTIR room, however, they could have just as easily waiting until the extra room was utilized throughout the season, then place him on LTIR, and back date to get the additional room.

At the end of the day, Grossman did not have to be signed. They saw something in him that they felt was missing on the team, hence why he played. He also came at a lower cap hit than any other player available could have to make the team. It didn't work out, but they could have done other things.

I don't think you fully understand how the LTIR cap hit works. What you explained above isn't maximizing it in the slightest.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

I don't think you fully understand how the LTIR cap hit works. What you explained above isn't maximizing it in the slightest.

I don't think you interpreted my post correctly.

They could have maximized it in the same way by delaying the placement of Smid on LTIR until they were up against the cap (ie. as injuries happen eating into the space or future acquisitions).

The CBA isn't entirely clear, but from my discussions with people and research, I believe the LTIR room is calculated as the player's cap hit deducted by cap room. In either scenario, it would have been close to zero.

The question becomes timing. Because you can back date to the date of the player's injury, which was before the season started, the Flames could have received the same cap benefit as long as they placed him on a date where their cap room was negligible or close to zero.

They signed Grossman to fill the roster, and he was cheap, and they thought he gave something that the roster didn't have. In doing so, it left them with no space, and therefore, was an appropriate time to place him on LTIR.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

I don't think you interpreted my post correctly.

They could have maximized it in the same way by delaying the placement of Smid on LTIR until they were up against the cap (ie. as injuries happen eating into the space or future acquisitions).

The CBA isn't entirely clear, but from my discussions with people and research, I believe the LTIR room is calculated as the player's cap hit deducted by cap room. In either scenario, it would have been close to zero.

The question becomes timing. Because you can back date to the date of the player's injury, which was before the season started, the Flames could have received the same cap benefit as long as they placed him on a date where their cap room was negligible or close to zero.

They signed Grossman to fill the roster, and he was cheap, and they thought he gave something that the roster didn't have. In doing so, it left them with no space, and therefore, was an appropriate time to place him on LTIR.

You assume the Flames had the luxury of waiting for cap space to grow. Is Treliving supposed to know exactly when players are injured and needs to use cap space in call ups?

If the Flames did not sign Grossmann, they would have had ~$583k in caps space to start the season .

If there was an injury in any of their early games they would not have the cap space to call up anyone from the AHL without using Smid's LTIR.

The cheapest contracts they have on the farm at forward is Carroll ($670k) and at defence Wotherspoon ($625k).

If any of those call ups are necessary before the Flames let the cap space grew enough to fit them in, you wouldn't maximize the cap space from the LTIR.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by zyzz

LOL another fine example of how fans wear rose colored glasses

I am hoping some of the cheerleaders incorporate this reality into their future commentary.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

You assume the Flames had the luxury of waiting for cap space to grow. Is Treliving supposed to know exactly when players are injured and needs to use cap space in call ups?

If the Flames did not sign Grossmann, they would have had ~$583k in caps space to start the season .

If there was an injury in any of their early games they would not have the cap space to call up anyone from the AHL without using Smid's LTIR.

The cheapest contracts they have on the farm at forward is Carroll ($670k) and at defence Wotherspoon ($625k).

If any of those call ups are necessary before the Flames let the cap space grew enough to fit them in, you wouldn't maximize the cap space from the LTIR.

That's sorta the point. Grossman was signed because he was the only person that fit the cap space of the team as of that moment.

In theory they could have also played with one less spare in game one, banked a small amount of space, then called up a more expensive player for a day or two to get to the same place (near the cap).

The difference is they wanted the extra player right from the beginning, and the only player that could be afforded to stay within the parameters of the cap was Grossman, which in conjunction maximized the space to trigger the LTIR.

At the end of the day, there were creative ways to get to the same place without Grossman's involvement.

But make no mistake, part of the decision making process involved them wanting Grossman to some degree, which is illustrated by the fact he was actually utilized, and continued to be utilized even when he clearly wasn't working.

I'm not sure why people want to deny that the Flames saw some use for Grossman. If it was 100% pure cap maneuvering, he would have never sniffed the ice in a game situation.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

That's sorta the point. Grossman was signed because he was the only person that fit the cap space of the team as of that moment.

The difference is they wanted the extra player right from the beginning, and the only player that could be afforded to stay within the parameters of the cap was Grossman, which in conjunction maximized the space to trigger the LTIR.

At the end of the day, there were creative ways to get to the same place without Grossman's involvement.

But make no mistake, part of the decision making process involved them wanting Grossman to some degree, which is illustrated by the fact he was actually utilized, and continued to be utilized even when he clearly wasn't working.

I'm not sure why people want to deny that the Flames saw some use for Grossman. If it was 100% pure cap maneuvering, he would have never sniffed the ice in a game situation.

Well yeah, they could have signed the homeless guy that rifles through the Saddledome dumpster for empties to the same contract and got the same effect.

With Grossmann they were trying to kill two birds with one stone.
1. LTIR relief
2. defensive depth with some bite which the Flames are sorely needing

It appears it was done primarily for the cap relief. The 2nd reason was a low risk move with the Flames hoping they could get a little value out of the money they were spending on him.

In theory they could have also played with one less spare in game one, banked a small amount of space, then called up a more expensive player for a day or two to get to the same place (near the cap).

By my calculation they wouldn't have had enough cap space until mid 2nd week to call up anybody and maximize LTIR. Huge risk.

[CroFlames]

To me it's pretty obvious that GG used Grossman to try to shake things up with the defence when things weren't going well. The whole group wasn't jiving so I believe in a good ol fashioned shakeup. Yeah, I understand Brad did some cap gymnastics with the Smid injury, but Grossman should NEVER have seen NHL ice, and yet he did. Multiple times.

If you needed someone who was willing to spend time in the pressbox, but still be motivated to play when called upon, I think Nakladal would have been your man. The guy has a cannon of a shot from the point and it may have just been the antidote for the pathetic powerplay to get a spark.

We'll never know now. Enjoy Europe though Jakub.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Well yeah, they could have signed the homeless guy that rifles through the Saddledome dumpster for empties to the same contract and got the same effect.

With Grossmann they were trying to kill two birds with one stone.
1. LTIR relief
2. defensive depth with some bite which the Flames are sorely needing

It appears it was done primarily for the cap relief. The 2nd reason was a low risk move with the Flames hoping they could get a little value out of the money they were spending on him.



By my calculation they wouldn't have had enough cap space until mid 2nd week to call up anybody and maximize LTIR. Huge risk.

Don't disagree with your analysis. The counter argument of course would be that he essentially backed himself into a corner by leaving such little cap space that the only option to sign would be Grossman.

And yet, he was utilized game 1 of the season.. not exactly someone being envisioned purely to be used as a backup/emergency option.