Which Flames actually have trade value?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Player A - 25 years old, 6ft 1in - 31 pts in 91 career NHL games - 0.34 PPG
Player B - 23 years old, 6ft 2in - 13 pts in 63 career NHL games - 0.21 PPG

A is Josh Jooris, B is Ferland. One gets scratched and barely plays, the other is somehow untouchable because of one six game stretch where he played well.

Player A - 24 years old, 6ft 1in - 311 pts in 349 career NHL games - .891 PPG

Player B - 2000 years old, 250 ft - 0 pts in 0 NHL games - .000 PPG

Player A is Taylor Hall. Player B is a mighty sequoia. One is dumb as a tree and the other is, well, a tree. Relevance? PPG is a bad indicator of the quality of a hockey player.

The whole thing about trade value is recognizing when allayed has achieved peak trade value and moving him then. Calgary GMs have been historically bad at this. Treliving should have moved a couple of the vets this past summer after career years, especially after acquiring Hamilton. Timing is everything and Treliving missed the opportunity to get maximum return. Now he just has to take what he can get and move on.

[JohnnyB]

What stands out when comparing the Flames' salaries to some top teams in the league is that the Flames really seem to overpay the low-mid range talent. Both up front and on defence. They aren't glaringly high numbers, but added up together they not only account for a good chunk of cash, they also make freeing up a number of roster spots through trades quite difficult. Unfortunately, a number of those contracts still have years to run too when the Flames so need to get rid of them to build around the key pieces properly.

[FBI]

I'm ready to move on from Granlund. Only thing holding me back is Bennett said that was one of his best friends in rookie reporter lol.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Split98

He's a talent that will be very difficult to replace

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Ferland is a talent that is difficult to replace? Firstly, he's a winger which is the easiest position to replace. Secondly, he's got 8 points. Jooris has 1 less point in 6 games less played. I'm sorry, but unless you are a defensive wunderkind, your job as a forward is to generate points, especially since he's played large chunks in the top half of the roster. Yeah, Ferland throws he body, but frankly he's also been very invisible for many games this season.

PS: Go to your tapatalk settings so you can permanently remove that annoying signature.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Ferland untouchable? When did this guy become some super prospect? I'm not convinced he's even going to be a full time NHL player in his career let alone untouchable. I would have no issue throwing him in any trade as a spare part.

Couldn't agree more. In the Ferly signing thread, people were saying how stupid Ferly would be to take a multi-year deal. He should certainly take a 1-year deal so he could cash in huge after this season. Wtf? I though that was utterly ridiculous, and was chastised for it. A player of his caliber should jump at any chance to sign a multiyear deal because there is no guarantee he'll be in the NHL after those two or three years are up. I simply don't rate him nearly as high as many on this site seem to. He might be able to crack a 2nd line somewhere in the NHL, but I envision him as a 4th line grit guy in the future.

I say this as a fan of Ferly.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by FBI

I'm ready to move on from Granlund. Only thing holding me back is Bennett said that was one of his best friends in rookie reporter lol.

I have been wondering all year why he's on the roster. I feel that he's overrated by a lot of posters here who like his "2 way game". He's bad defensively and bad offensively. And he's small and can't win a draw to save his life. Why he's playing C and Bennett is playing W is beyond comprehension for my small simple mind.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by heep223

I have been wondering all year why he's on the roster. I feel that he's overrated by a lot of posters here who like his "2 way game". He's bad defensively and bad offensively. And he's small and can't win a draw to save his life. Why he's playing C and Bennett is playing W is beyond comprehension for my small simple mind.

Granlund seems capable of playing well in short spurts after being called up. But after 6 or 7 games he looks AHL. He's the new Jamie Lundmark.

[polak]

Ferland is the most over rated prospect on these boards.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by polak

Ferland is the most over rated prospect on these boards.

Damn...

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by polak

Ferland is the most over rated prospect on these boards.

and the most under-rated

[MrMastodonFarm]

Yeah, not a big Ferland fan.

His offensive instincts are poor, his defensive instincts are poor and he doesn't bring that physical game on anything resembling a consistent basis. He drags down any line he's on at the moment. Needs to be that bulldog we saw in the playoffs on a semi-regular basis but just isn't.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by polak

Ferland is the most over rated prospect on these boards.

I think it's Jon Gillies.

[polak]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Yeah, not a big Ferland fan.

His offensive instincts are poor, his defensive instincts are poor and he doesn't bring that physical game on anything resembling a consistent basis. He drags down any line he's on at the moment. Needs to be that bulldog we saw in the playoffs on a semi-regular basis but just isn't.

Seems to get hurt when he tries to play at that level on a regular basis.

I'd be shocked if he peaked any higher than Bouma or Stajan (hell Stajan was actually pretty good in Toronto).

[heep223]

Originally Posted by polak

Ferland is the most over rated prospect on these boards.

Can you please change your avatar to the meme below? Because that's what I think of everytime you post haha

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Yet you have him listed but have Ferland as untouchable when he is a 3rd/4th liner? You want to start a discussion which is great but the guy at the top of your list is going to dominate this thread IMO.

Ferland is a potential top two line power forward, pretty rare commodity.

He's close to my untouchable group.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Ferland is a talent that is difficult to replace? Firstly, he's a winger which is the easiest position to replace. Secondly, he's got 8 points. Jooris has 1 less point in 6 games less played. I'm sorry, but unless you are a defensive wunderkind, your job as a forward is to generate points, especially since he's played large chunks in the top half of the roster. Yeah, Ferland throws he body, but frankly he's also been very invisible for many games this season.

Points aren't everything in his stage of development. The important thing is he demonstrates good hands, good passing, good speed, good physicality. He drives the net and wins board battles. He plays a power game and is a big, strong kid.

Frankly we need more Ferlands and more Boumas to be tougher to play against. We're easy to shut down because we don't have many forwards that are hard to contain. Outside of Johnny and Bennett we're an easy group to check and contain. Ferland is a guy who is hard to contain and will be harder to contain as he continues to develop. Powerforwards are important complimentary pieces on a line. They make room for smaller, more skilled players and disrupt goalies and defence men. They help retain possession by dominating board and net front battles.

Our other power forward prospects (Hunter Smith and Austin Carroll) are huge question marks at this point. So yes, Ferland as our best power forward prospect is close untouchable in my books. And he's untouchable mostly because we won't get the value back for him in trade that his upside is worth to us. Certainly I'd move him in the right deal but we need more power forwards not less.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Points aren't everything in his stage of development. The important thing is he demonstrates good hands, good passing, good speed, good physicality. He drives the net and wins board battles. He plays a power game and is a big, strong kid.

Frankly we need more Ferlands and more Boumas to be tougher to play against. We're easy to shut down because we don't have many forwards that are hard to contain. Outside of Johnny and Bennett we're an easy group to check and contain. Ferland is a guy who is hard to contain and will be harder to contain as he continues to develop. Powerforwards are important complimentary pieces on a line. They make room for smaller, more skilled players and disrupt goalies and defence men. They help retain possession by dominating board and net front battles.

Our other power forward prospects (Hunter Smith and Austin Carroll) are huge question marks at this point. So yes, Ferland as our best power forward prospect is close untouchable in my books. And he's untouchable mostly because we won't get the value back for him in trade that his upside is worth to us. Certainly I'd move him in the right deal but we need more power forwards not less.

He has the potential to be a powerforward, but frankly Sam Bennett has proved he's better at the power forward role than Ferly has.

He had that great run in the playoffs where he was hitting everything in site, but that hasn't translated to this season if you ask me. Again, Bennett seems to be bumping and agitating more so than Ferly. Which is disappointing because I do believe in the power forward role.

[Strange Brew]

The title of this thread is most appropriate. We have too many veterans with little to no trade value, largely due to their salaries.

Compare that to the last Iginla year, when Feaster had two vets (Iginla, Bouwmeester) that he was able to move for 1st round picks. We have no veterans on the roster currently that could yield such a return except for maybe Gio who isn't going anywhere right now.

The next phase of this rebuild is going to be hard. As many have said, the contracts handed out to non core players have really hampered the team. Need to start seeing some "value" additions.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by New Era

Player A - 24 years old, 6ft 1in - 311 pts in 349 career NHL games - .891 PPG

Player B - 2000 years old, 250 ft - 0 pts in 0 NHL games - .000 PPG

Player A is Taylor Hall. Player B is a mighty sequoia. One is dumb as a tree and the other is, well, a tree. Relevance? PPG is a bad indicator of the quality of a hockey player.

The whole thing about trade value is recognizing when allayed has achieved peak trade value and moving him then. Calgary GMs have been historically bad at this. Treliving should have moved a couple of the vets this past summer after career years, especially after acquiring Hamilton. Timing is everything and Treliving missed the opportunity to get maximum return. Now he just has to take what he can get and move on.

A hockey team isn't a stock portfolio. They are human beings. Building a team is more than the sum of its parts. Loyalty matters. Continuity matters. Having a mix of vets and youth matters. If we had a manager who calculated as coldly as you, players would not respond well. You would kill the spirit of the team. Your approach may be rational but not realistic.

It is pretty rare to trade a player like Hudler at the end of a season like he had last year. The team wouldn't like it and free agents wouldn't like it. Frolik probably doesn't sign here if we trade Hudler unless it was an unbelievable return.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Points aren't everything in his stage of development. The important thing is he demonstrates good hands, good passing, good speed, good physicality. He drives the net and wins board battles. He plays a power game and is a big, strong kid.

Does he?

I can't recall any plays where he has shown to have any of those things on a consistent basis. You list all of these great attributes but players that consistently demonstrate those things have success. 8 points and 2 goals past the halfway point of the season is not a successful offensive forward. In fact, if he doesn't pick it up I'd be surprised if he was in the NHL after next season.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Split98

He's a talent that will be very difficult to replace

I think people thought the same about Rene Bourque for a while too.