Sawing a living Whale Shark in half?!?! (WTF China)

[pylon]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Or, here's a thought, you could just leave race/culture out of it and just say "jesus christ that is disgusting, what a horrible person."

Also, lollin at the guy who paid $1000 too much for a Falcon NW laptop just to avoid Chinese parts.

I am with you to an extent. However, if you have a Country or culture, that embraces and enables cruel treatment of animals, bad environmental policy, poor human rights values, rape culture.... whatever it is, I really don't think you get anywhere by not addressing that it is a localized problem, and pointing out "It is this Country/Group/Religion" that is responsible for the majority of this problem.

If a certain amount of shame, or sanctions isn't cast over the group as a whole, then the good people within it, have no incentive to change the ones unwilling to change. I am 100% certain not every Chinese person embraces this, however, maybe those Chinese people that do not, will eventually say "This isn't right." and push for cultural change within their own borders, as opposed to it being the west picking on China.

And also I don't think lap top buddy understands the difference between 'made in the USA' and 'assembled in the USA.' He's delusional if he thinks even 20% of the parts in that thing were made in America. lol

[PsYcNeT]

I just don't think the Chinese (and Asia in general) give much a of a #### about what we think in general.

Knowing what I do about the culture, much like in NA attitudes will shift over time but external pressure has a near zero chance of having any effect on current practice, and may only make the issue more insular.

The racist stereotyping in this thread however is pretty awful.

[Looch City]

Those damn commies will get what's coming to them.

[Phanuthier]

This thread delivers... can't believe I almost passed it over. Thanks for some Friday entertainment LOL.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I just don't think the Chinese (and Asia in general) give much a of a #### about what we think in general.

Knowing what I do about the culture, much like in NA attitudes will shift over time but external pressure has a near zero chance of having any effect on current practice, and may only make the issue more insular.

The racist stereotyping in this thread however is pretty awful.

I am gonna kind of turn it around on you a bit though.

You are very pro-womens rights, anti rape culture etc. I don't disagree with that for one second. I agree with it, and embrace empowerment of women in every regard. However, many of your posts, shed all men, in a negative light, and also make it the responsibility of all men, to be responsible for mass change.

If we see a certain culture that has certain practices that are obviously not right, is it not the responsibility of that culture as a whole, to address it, and be accountable for their bad seeds? Is it not that cultures responsibility to enact laws and societal norms to end these practices?

A lot of people are missing the point. Yes North Americans eat meat and kill animals. But for the better part, we do it as humanely and quickly as possible. There's always the sicko that's the exception to the rule. Most hunters I know, do everything in their power to obtain a quick kill, and reduce the suffering and pain of an animal in any way possible. I could never do it myself, but if I did, that is how I would.

However, in some Asian cultures, the suffering of animals is not the exception, it is the norm. Japanese have a dish, where a frog innards are eaten and the still live frog is positioned on the plate to watch you consume it. Snakes hearts are ripped out still beating and consumed. Turtles in China, have their shells chopped open and organs are picked away at live in markets. We all know about the shark finning and dog torturing practices. The list goes on and on.

I don't hate Chinese people or Japanese people. I wouldn't care if it was Swedes, Russians... or any other culture. I do however hate these animal abuse practices which serve no purpose. And I feel the cultures as a whole, need to be held accountable for there to be systematic change. No living thing deserves to be tortured for no purpose.

[PsYcNeT]

To me, the practices appear distasteful, that is true. I also know however, that I look at it through a much different cultural lens than those who are immersed within the culture. It's difficult to be in the mindframe of a rural, uneducated farmer living in central China. That is utterly beyond my scope as a suburban white man from Canada.

That said, I suppose you can understand that I feel I understand the cultural behaviors of men in North America, which is why I push for mass change related to our collective behavior. Address what you know, I guess.

I make no claim to understand the thousands of cultural nuances of Chinese culture, but I have enough cultural awareness to know that viewing other cultures (particularly those more insulated portions) negatively when contrasted against my own culture is a futile and ethnocentric exercise. There remains an almost colonialist thinking regarding the majority of Asia and Africa nowadays, though I suppose East Asians are seen more in a "noble savage" type of light, as awful as that is.

EDIT: I guess the question is, what purpose does this kind of thread serve, other than the gross-out curiosity factor? To allow blowhards to rant about the evils of the Chinese culture? To claim moral superiority over a group that exists under an entirely different system of laws, cultural mores, and historical norms?

[pylon]

I personally believe we live in a time and are educated enough globally, where torture and cruelty of any living thing, can not just be chalked up to cultural differences.

Pain and suffering are universal in all living creatures. A shark on a beach in China, suffers no more or less than a Shark on a beach in California if is is methodically cross sectioned alive.

[PsYcNeT]

I can be though, because when

a) it's government sanctioned (legal)
b) culturally normative
c) you live in an information-isolated locale (rural China is without internet access for the most part)
d) the only rumblings you may ever hear regarding animal cruelty are from foreigners who don't care about your way of life, cultures, traditions, or means

Look at it this way, practicing Hindus think that cows are sacred. Rural Chinese (might) know that western people think dogs/living animals are sacred. Neither of these groups really gives a #### about what these other groups think. When was the last time you felt bad eating a hamburger because a Hindu person considers it a sacred animal?

As cliche of a position as it is, the change has to come from within, especially within a reserved and (progressively less) globally isolated culture as you will find in China.

[Jordan!]

In a weird way, that was pretty cool.. but also really messed up!

[Looch City]

I was watching Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown for a bit yesterday, I don't remember the location, but they were with some local tribes out in the forest for their tribunals.

Their tradition included leading a cow into the forest, tackling it down on to its back, spreading it's legs, and basically gutting it. Then they would cut the meat, cook it, and eat it over the fire.

If I had posted that video, it would for sure be the same reaction as this shark one.

There are crazy cultures and traditions around the world. But they're only "crazy" because it's not the norm in our western culture.

[pylon]

Again I am not discussing the fact that animals are consumed or religious implications. I am discussing the ways in which they are killed. You will never change the fact humans will consume meat. I do expect, in the future, it will be more engineered or grown meat, where basically they will make steaks, fish fillets, whatever it is... in a meat lab, and the slaughter portion will be unnecessary.

However, until that future comes. I believe we should kill things as quickly and painlessly as possible. You are robbing the creature of life for sustenance, at least give it the dignity of a quick painless death.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by pylon

Again I am not discussing the fact that animals are consumed or religious implications. I am discussing the ways in which they are killed. You will never change the fact humans will consume meat. I do expect, in the future, it will be more engineered or grown meat, where basically they will make steaks, fish fillets, whatever it is... in a meat lab, and the slaughter portion will be unnecessary.

However, until that future comes. I believe we should kill things as quickly and painlessly as possible. You are robbing the creature of life for sustenance, at least give it the dignity of a quick painless death.

To be clear, I don't disagree at all. That said, there is nothing to be achieved by white people tut-tutting at the cultural practices of an isolated group of people living half a world away.

[Jude]

Originally Posted by Kryzsky

Is that what we're going to do now? "Not every single person, no, no!"

Yeah, let's start every conversation with a disclaimer, still won't change the fact that the majority of these insane animal cruelty stories come out of that country. Same place where they boil dogs alive, skin and torture them because they believe it will make the meat taste better.

Instead of condemning that behavior and bringing attention to what goes on there let's try to shame anyone who is not careful about their language.

Do you eat meat from a grocery store? If you do I got some bad news for you...

Even if you don't, as a North American, how dare you allow factory farms to exist!

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I just don't think the Chinese (and Asia in general) give much a of a #### about what we think in general.

Knowing what I do about the culture, much like in NA attitudes will shift over time but external pressure has a near zero chance of having any effect on current practice, and may only make the issue more insular.

The racist stereotyping in this thread however is pretty awful.

Please don't stereotype like that.

[_Q_]

Look at what ethnic people do. Ethnic folks are terrible. Thank God I live in North America where nothing bad ever happens... Seriously what's the point of this thread? If you were to take a video of a North American slaughterhouse I'm sure it would be equally as shocking.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Look at what ethnic people do. Ethnic folks are terrible. Thank God I live in North America where nothing bad ever happens... Seriously what's the point of this thread? If you were to take a video of a North American slaughterhouse I'm sure it would be equally as shocking.

Yeah but Hamburgers!!!! Hamburgers are good and we white people understand them, so all good.

[Magnum PEI]

Yeah, Canada isnt much better. Look at how many people own Canada Goose jackets. Each one has a coyote pelt on the hood, that probably spent its last hours in torture and stress on a trapline.

[The Familia]

All these people in here getting all up in arms about stereotyping need to relax. Guess what? A stereotype exists because more often than not there is some reason and truth behind it. I'm Italian and list goes on and on in regards to Italian stereotypes. Brick layers, concrete pourers, greased up hair, gold chains, loud and obnoxious, etc. Guess what? I know tons of Italians who fall into every single stereotype. Is it all? Nope but my God is there a lot.

Come back in 20-30 years when the ocean is crippled and depleted and many species are extinct. China and eastern Asia will be responsible for much of it. Tell me how you feel then.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

To be clear, I don't disagree at all. That said, there is nothing to be achieved by white people tut-tutting at the cultural practices of an isolated group of people living half a world away.

Why is it just "white people" tut tutting about this? You don't believe other races in western society would/can find this disgusting or amoral?

[cracher]

Honest question for the cultural anthropologists: How much value is there in the term "Chinese culture"? 1.6B people, several distinct languages, huge income disparities, different regions with different traditions. And a lot of these groups hate each other. Did we just watch a video of inner-city Detroit or 90210 and extrapolate the cultural implications to all of America?