ESPN: Top 100 Prospects (Insider)

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Mitch....come on now, I can see the argument of having him outside the top 10...but seriously top 40...lol

Well yeah, I'm commenting on him saying it's laughable to not have him in the top 10. And his way of supporting that is to bring up awards and stats that other players don't have. At least Pronmans evaluations come from what he has seen on the ice, and at least he brings an honest/unique opinion that isn't based on how much hype the hockey world gives a prospect.

I don't agree with a lot/most of Pronmans rankings but I'm not going to go around calling them laughable acting like I know more about these prospects more then he does.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by Mitch

Well yeah, I'm commenting on him saying it's laughable to not have him in the top 10. And his way of supporting that is to bring up awards and stats that other players don't have. At least Pronmans evaluations come from what he has seen on the ice, and at least he brings an honest/unique opinion that isn't based on how much hype the hockey world gives a prospect.

I don't agree with a lot/most of Pronmans rankings but I'm not going to go around calling them laughable acting like I know more about these prospects more then he does.

Fair enough

However, Pronman must not be following Gaudreau that closley if he ranks him 42nd for what he has done on the ice.

[Aarongavey]

How many guys from the 2011 draft does he have on his list? It might be an age thing.

[MVW]

Originally Posted by Mitch

Well yeah, I'm commenting on him saying it's laughable to not have him in the top 10. And his way of supporting that is to bring up awards and stats that other players don't have. At least Pronmans evaluations come from what he has seen on the ice, and at least he brings an honest/unique opinion that isn't based on how much hype the hockey world gives a prospect.

I don't agree with a lot/most of Pronmans rankings but I'm not going to go around calling them laughable acting like I know more about these prospects more then he does.

I'm a little confused, in this post your argument is to discredit his accolades, which he has so clearly earned? I'm not claiming to have seen the various prospects to the extent of Pronman, but not only was Gaudreau clearly heads and shoulders above everyone else in College this past year, but the season he had, has not been seen in the NCAA for over 30 years. And I have watched Gaudreau quite often, he's a just an incredibly gifted and rare player. It's baffling to me to see 75% of the guys on that list ranked higher than JG, based on the player he is, his upside, and his accomplishments. If you really break it down, theres no debate that he's a top 10 guy.

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Fair enough

However, Pronman must not be following Gaudreau that closley if he ranks him 42nd for what he has done on the ice.

I doubt it's that.

I would assume Pronman is just one of those that is more skeptical on whether or not Gaudreau's size and play style will translate to the NHL. I have seen Pronman rave about Gaudreau's skill on twitter plenty, he is obviously aware of that.

[stemit14]

I just take satisfaction in knowing that guys like pronman continue to underestimate gaudreau and it's just more people for johnny to prove wrong.

[MarkGio]

Gaudrea leads the NCAA two years in a row, Wins the 2014 Hobey Baker (should've won the 2013) and leads all American forwards in both the 2013 World Junior's and the 2014 World Championships. He's the best player out of his respective league and arguably the best prospect from his Nation.

Pronman dropped the ball to the point where its laughable.

[YogiBerra]

HF Poster: Johnny Gaudreau just had the most dominant collegiate season since Paul Kariya 20 years ago and doesn't crack the top 10?

I'm not a Flames fan, or BC fan, or anything, but I've seen this kid play, and he flat out dominates the competition. Has dominated nearly every game he's played in for the last 2+ years. He deserves to be higher than a lot of those players.

Also as an aside, I have very high opinion of Fiala. Real deal.
Pronman: I see a 5-9/non bulky F with high-end to elite hands and IQ, pretty good but not amazing skating for his size, not a physical force, and not all that valuable defensively. That's a potential quality top 6 forward in my eyes, but he'd need to be a top 25 skater in the NHL to get into the kind of range you suggest, which is that of a potential all-star.

Pronmans' response so his opinion is if your small you have to be one of the best skaters in the NHL to make it. Seems like a pretty narrow view; I wouldn't consider Kane, ST. Louis or a lot of the other small guys who have made it top 25 skaters but they get by fine. Pronmans' lists are always so bad.

[Tinordi]

Kane is an *excellent* skater. Doesn't have top end speed but has elite agility. Gaudreau may well work up to that level but he isn't close to Kane's skating ability.

St. Louis isn't a top 25 skater although in his prime he was definitely in the conversation. What St. Louis does bring is a physical game that Pronman mentions. St. Louis is a brick craphouse out there which more than makes up for his size. Gaudreau is not built like St. Louis in the slightest.

Besides those two, who else is small and is a consistent scoring threat in the NHL?

[jg13]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Kane is an *excellent* skater. Doesn't have top end speed but has elite agility. Gaudreau may well work up to that level but he isn't close to Kane's skating ability.

St. Louis isn't a top 25 skater although in his prime he was definitely in the conversation. What St. Louis does bring is a physical game that Pronman mentions. St. Louis is a brick craphouse out there which more than makes up for his size. Gaudreau is not built like St. Louis in the slightest.

Besides those two, who else is small and is a consistent scoring threat in the NHL?

Desharnais is playing pretty well 5"7, Zuccarello has also been very good the past year or so. Those are probably the next closest besides Gionta who is way past his prime.

[YogiBerra]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Kane is an *excellent* skater. Doesn't have top end speed but has elite agility. Gaudreau may well work up to that level but he isn't close to Kane's skating ability.

St. Louis isn't a top 25 skater although in his prime he was definitely in the conversation. What St. Louis does bring is a physical game that Pronman mentions. St. Louis is a brick craphouse out there which more than makes up for his size. Gaudreau is not built like St. Louis in the slightest.

Besides those two, who else is small and is a consistent scoring threat in the NHL?

Gaudreau has shown to be as shifty as Kane in the levels he has played at so i don't know why you would put him on another level. Kane isn't any faster, if Gaudreau can translate his skills he can be every bit as good. As for the second sentence you seem to be arguing that St Louis has a physical game which is not true at all. All his frame does is allow him to absorb hits more since he doesn't have the shiftiness. Gaudreau takes some big hits but he hasn't missed any time with injury so he seems to be able to absorb them

As for examples if your looking for strictly Gaudreaus' height and below that score like Kane and St louis there obviously aren't many. But there are plenty of lesser skilled small guys, and people that are 2" taller that are elite. If your narrowing your focus into two outliers(small size and elite scoring) obviously you are going to get a small sample back. Gaudreau being small doesn't preclude him from being elite just because he doesn't have elite top speed the same way it didn't stop Kane.

[sun]

He may not have top speed, but I think his first few steps are great and his agility is fantastic. I believe he was one of the better skaters at the development camp wasn't he?

Situations like Weber outmuscling him last year with seemingly little difficulty are what we have to worry about. Not his skating.

[Tinordi]

I don't think he's a bad skater, just not a Patrick Kane level skater, which is one of Kane's biggest weapons to be a top flight player in this league. The broader point being that Gaudreau has more questions than other smaller skilled players who excel in the league. It's not a knock, but it explains why some people are not as enthusiastic.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I would classify Gaudreau's shiftiness and agility as 'elite', no? He doesn't have top-end speed. He isn't slow, just not an explosive skater. However, he absolutely does have elite agility.

[MVW]

In an overall context, Gaudreau's skating is elite. He has multiple breakaways each game, thus where he's pulling away from the competition. His acceleration and top end speed are both excellent. His edge work is probably already among the best top 5 in the NHL (no I'm not being a homer, it's that good). And the fact that he can do what he does at top speed makes it all that much more impressive. I have no idea where people saying he isn't a great skater came from, it's not an accurate statement IMO. He's not the leagues fastest skater, but it is top notch.

[StrykerSteve]

Anyone that says his skating isn't high end didn't watch him at development camp.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I don't think he's a bad skater, just not a Patrick Kane level skater, which is one of Kane's biggest weapons to be a top flight player in this league. The broader point being that Gaudreau has more questions than other smaller skilled players who excel in the league. It's not a knock, but it explains why some people are not as enthusiastic.

From watching Kane here in London as a junior and throughout his NHL career, I'd put Gaudreau's skating at least on par with him. Kane is a bit bigger and has elite vision that we don't know if Gaudreau will be able to match at the NHL level.

[Enoch Root]

Yeah his agility and quickness are definitely elite. And his speed is more than decent.

I also laughed at Pronman's response that he "isn't that valuable defensively". Anyone who has watched him at all knows that he steals pucks more than any player I can think of besides Datsyuk. In fact, it is because of takeaways (not because of offensive abilities) that he is so often compared to Datsyuk. What prospect-level wingers are valuable defensively? (I would put him way ahead of most)

There is no question that he still has an uphill battle due to his size, but 42nd is definitely laughable.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Anyone that says his skating isn't high end didn't watch him at development camp.

It's development camp. Hockey late spring against other prospects.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah his agility and quickness are definitely elite. And his speed is more than decent.

I also laughed at Pronman's response that he "isn't that valuable defensively". Anyone who has watched him at all knows that he steals pucks more than any player I can think of besides Datsyuk. In fact, it is because of takeaways (not because of offensive abilities) that he is so often compared to Datsyuk. What prospect-level wingers are valuable defensively? (I would put him way ahead of most)

There is no question that he still has an uphill battle due to his size, but 42nd is definitely laughable.

He seems to praise somebody like Shinkaruk when Gaudreau does everything he can, but better.