Messier joins Oilers as "advisor to the team"

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by New Era

I'd be careful about pointing and laughing at the Oilers right now. Our team is a bigger joke and getting worse. The Oilers direction is flawed and laughable, but they have some semblance of direction. What is our direction again? Truculence? Our front office is a mess because it doesn't exist. We are at one of the most important points in team history, at a crossroads so to speak, and we don't even have a GM or a guy whose primary interest is our hockey club. We have no reason to point a finger at anyone right now and laugh at their mismanagement. We're circling the drain and trying to take solace there is another turd caught in the same vortex. That's a new low watermark if you ask me.

wow wow wow.....them is fighting words.

Mulletville, has been on a treadmill for years, they have nothing to show for their years of horrible.

they have some semblance of direction

What directions is that? They are lower in the standings than last year. Another post broke down the "direction" their "kids" had taken since last season.....psst it sure as hell wasn't an upwards directions.


While we are bad, and I suspect will get worse, we do not have a long, storied history of futility like that team up north.

[foshizzle11]

^ good reaction to New Era's comments.

how is our front office a mess? Is it not in the best interest of the club to do it's due diligence in finding the right GM. Maybe that guy isn't available until after this season is finished. I kind of suspect Burke will wait until the off season to replace Feaster. I am definitely ok with that.

I don't know how people can say we are worse off right now than the Oilers, that just seems so strange to me.

[Ruttiger]

Good lord............

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

how is our front office a mess?

Who is the GM? Do we have anyone minding the shop right now? We know Burke is on the college circuit right now, talking to teams about hockey. We know he's balls deep into Team USA right now. What's going on with the Flames right now?

Is it not in the best interest of the club to do it's due diligence in finding the right GM. Maybe that guy isn't available until after this season is finished. I kind of suspect Burke will wait until the off season to replace Feaster. I am definitely ok with that.

We're coming up to one of the most critical points in our season, and likely to have a significant impact on the direction the rebuild takes, and you're okay waiting until after that point to hire a GM? Patience is for waiting for your youth to develop. Patience does not include letting your team languish while your attention is elsewhere.

I don't know how people can say we are worse off right now than the Oilers, that just seems so strange to me.

If you can't look at the two teams and see the dramatic difference then I don't know what to tell you. Four players over 30 points and not one of them older than 25. Our best young player hasn't cracked 20 points yet. We are in a world of hurt and things are only going to get worse. This may be the most important trade deadline in team history, yes, even more important than last season's, because we are divesting ourselves of most of our veteran leadership. We need our course charted and all our homework done prior to this moment in time, not months after it. We may see this trade deadline come and go and see nothing but opportunity lost. You know, like how we were going to use all that cap space available to us to rob teams blind of good prospects for bad contracts. How did that work out for us? Oh yeah, we watched that boat sail away without doing anything. I'll make fun of the Oilers for their incompetence, but the Flames have raced next to them and are trending in a worse direction.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by New Era

Who is the GM? Do we have anyone minding the shop right now? We know Burke is on the college circuit right now, talking to teams about hockey. We know he's balls deep into Team USA right now. What's going on with the Flames right now?



We're coming up to one of the most critical points in our season, and likely to have a significant impact on the direction the rebuild takes, and you're okay waiting until after that point to hire a GM? Patience is for waiting for your youth to develop. Patience does not include letting your team languish while your attention is elsewhere.

I agree with this one. I get that he wants to find a new GM but I'd like to see Burke make some moves in the meantime. Maybe he intends too and thinks it's best to hold off for a bit longer, I don't know, but I still can't wait for the Olympics to be done so we know Burke is 100% concentrating on his day job

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I agree with this one. I get that he wants to find a new GM but I'd like to see Burke make some moves in the meantime. Maybe he intends too and thinks it's best to hold off for a bit longer, I don't know, but I still can't wait for the Olympics to be done so we know Burke is 100% concentrating on his day job

It kind of pisses me off that Burke is so heavily invested in the olympic effort. Frankly, I don't give a crap about the olympics. I wish Burke felt the same way. I want him to focus all of his attention on the Calgary Flames and fixing the problems that plague this team. I want him getting up close and personal with our prospects so he completely understands what we have in the system. I don't want to hear any bull#### about him not thinking much of our system, simply because he doesn't know the players in the system! If Burke doesn't want to look after the store, get someone in to do it. I hate to see this team spinning its wheels and facing a lost season, but that is what appears to be on the horizon. A lot of opportunity missed.

[Burke Salad]

To be fair to Mr. Burke, I dont really want to watch this god awful product right now either.

[cKy]

Originally Posted by New Era

I'd be careful about pointing and laughing at the Oilers right now. Our team is a bigger joke and getting worse. The Oilers direction is flawed and laughable, but they have some semblance of direction. What is our direction again? Truculence? Our front office is a mess because it doesn't exist. We are at one of the most important points in team history, at a crossroads so to speak, and we don't even have a GM or a guy whose primary interest is our hockey club. We have no reason to point a finger at anyone right now and laugh at their mismanagement. We're circling the drain and trying to take solace there is another turd caught in the same vortex. That's a new low watermark if you ask me.

I'm not sure you get how 'rivalries' work.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by New Era

It kind of pisses me off that Burke is so heavily invested in the olympic effort. Frankly, I don't give a crap about the olympics. I wish Burke felt the same way. I want him to focus all of his attention on the Calgary Flames and fixing the problems that plague this team. I want him getting up close and personal with our prospects so he completely understands what we have in the system. I don't want to hear any bull#### about him not thinking much of our system, simply because he doesn't know the players in the system! If Burke doesn't want to look after the store, get someone in to do it. I hate to see this team spinning its wheels and facing a lost season, but that is what appears to be on the horizon. A lot of opportunity missed.

I completely understand your sentiment and feel that way myself. At the same time, you're speculating pretty heavily that Burke isn't doing anything regarding the Flames. It's not always the case in the NHL that no smoke = no fire. It could very well be the case that Burke's lecture circuit and the US Olympic team is taking the majority of his attention but we don't really know that.

Nevertheless, given what was looming (the Olympics), I'm having a hard time understanding why it was necessary to fire Feaster and Wisebrod when he did. Institute a veto on all player movement but let the hands on the till continue to man the ship when you know you're going to be insanely busy over the next two months.

Or, you know, have a replacement in mind BEFORE you fire the guy. It's not as if Feaster had his hand on the detonate button and we had to have him clean out his office under security supervision.

On-topic edit: Oilers suck.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Bad news for Flames fans/the other teams because I'm pretty certain Messier will tell it straight up how it is: Klowe and his cronies need to go. Hopefully Messier is a big moose head and tells them to keep the course. But I doubt it. Hopefully somehow this backfires on the Oilers.

Yeah! And replace them with......Messier!! Someone with a grand total of ZERO experience.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by New Era

If you can't look at the two teams and see the dramatic difference then I don't know what to tell you. Four players over 30 points and not one of them older than 25. Our best young player hasn't cracked 20 points yet. We are in a world of hurt and things are only going to get worse. This may be the most important trade deadline in team history, yes, even more important than last season's, because we are divesting ourselves of most of our veteran leadership. We need our course charted and all our homework done prior to this moment in time, not months after it. We may see this trade deadline come and go and see nothing but opportunity lost. You know, like how we were going to use all that cap space available to us to rob teams blind of good prospects for bad contracts. How did that work out for us? Oh yeah, we watched that boat sail away without doing anything. I'll make fun of the Oilers for their incompetence, but the Flames have raced next to them and are trending in a worse direction.

A couple points. I don't understand how you can compare the Flames current situation to the Oilers. The Oilers have finished their rebuild and what you see is the result, a cap team floundering below a team team that you say has no direction.

What is the utmost importance for the flames franchise is the draft. That starts with their pick, not a pick that may be collected at the trade deadline.

As of right now it is clear what the direction of this franchise is, and that is to build through the draft. As much as we want the draft next week, we kind have to go through the motions of the season.

Oh yea, Oilers suck

[868904]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

I completely understand your sentiment and feel that way myself. At the same time, you're speculating pretty heavily that Burke isn't doing anything regarding the Flames. It's not always the case in the NHL that no smoke = no fire. It could very well be the case that Burke's lecture circuit and the US Olympic team is taking the majority of his attention but we don't really know that.

Nevertheless, given what was looming (the Olympics), I'm having a hard time understanding why it was necessary to fire Feaster and Wisebrod when he did. Institute a veto on all player movement but let the hands on the till continue to man the ship when you know you're going to be insanely busy over the next two months.

Or, you know, have a replacement in mind BEFORE you fire the guy. It's not as if Feaster had his hand on the detonate button and we had to have him clean out his office under security supervision.

On-topic edit: Oilers suck.

Maybe Burke's plan is to wait until the trade deadline to move veterans. If that is the plan, why would he do a knee jerk reaction to a few meaningless losses and trade them now before the most opportune time?

Many high level execs can do more than one thing at a time. They don't get to where they are without multi tasking. How do you know that when he's on the college circuit, he isn't also talking to our prospects and doing some scouting of potential college signings and for drafting? How do you know he isn't working the phones and discussing deals for the deadline?

It's not the first time that Burke has been a President AND GM AND Executive with Hockey USA. He's worn multiple hats many times and his track record speaks for itself.

Just because Ken King thinks we should have two separate people for President and GM doesn't mean that it must be like that. There are only a handful of teams who have a separate President and GM. Most teams have the one guy doing both jobs.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

I completely understand your sentiment and feel that way myself. At the same time, you're speculating pretty heavily that Burke isn't doing anything regarding the Flames. It's not always the case in the NHL that no smoke = no fire. It could very well be the case that Burke's lecture circuit and the US Olympic team is taking the majority of his attention but we don't really know that.

Nevertheless, given what was looming (the Olympics), I'm having a hard time understanding why it was necessary to fire Feaster and Wisebrod when he did. Institute a veto on all player movement but let the hands on the till continue to man the ship when you know you're going to be insanely busy over the next two months.

Or, you know, have a replacement in mind BEFORE you fire the guy. It's not as if Feaster had his hand on the detonate button and we had to have him clean out his office under security supervision.

On-topic edit: Oilers suck.

For the 1000th time. Burke said he didn't agree with returns on trades and drafting so why would you keep on a GM on staff to continue to make trades if you don't trust him or have Weisbrod have any more influence on scouting if you don't trust his work. Why is an immediate replacement required when Burke has better GM credentials than the guy he fired?

Part of Burkes duties was to access the current staff. After 3 months Burke made his recommendations. The timing was 100% correct as there is absolutely no downside to this and the only downside would be to keep them on to make transactions that may further influence the future of the organization.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by New Era

It kind of pisses me off that Burke is so heavily invested in the olympic effort. Frankly, I don't give a crap about the olympics. I wish Burke felt the same way. I want him to focus all of his attention on the Calgary Flames and fixing the problems that plague this team. I want him getting up close and personal with our prospects so he completely understands what we have in the system. I don't want to hear any bull#### about him not thinking much of our system, simply because he doesn't know the players in the system! If Burke doesn't want to look after the store, get someone in to do it. I hate to see this team spinning its wheels and facing a lost season, but that is what appears to be on the horizon. A lot of opportunity missed.

This is exactly why King was replaced by Burke and Feaster fired. Opportunities were in fact lost due to not trading Iginla a season or two earlier where he would have had higher value and the rebuild could have been started earlier rather than spinning wheels missing the playoffs with a veteran team. The Iginla and Bouwmeester were the biggest assets the team had to trade and in Burke and many hockey people's eyes the return was not up to snuff. Not only that Feaster couldn't even trade Kipper who didn't have a NTC because he's such a nice guy. Where did that get us?

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

For the 1000th time. Burke said he didn't agree with returns on trades and drafting so why would you keep on a GM on staff to continue to make trades if you don't trust him or have Weisbrod have any more influence on scouting if you don't trust his work. Why is an immediate replacement required when Burke has better GM credentials than the guy he fired?

Part of Burkes duties was to access the current staff. After 3 months Burke made his recommendations. The timing was 100% correct as there is absolutely no downside to this and the only downside would be to keep them on to make transactions that may further influence the future of the organization.

I'm not really sure your response addresses anything I said in my post, since I'm suggesting that there is in fact a potential downside. Given the state the Flames are in right now (utter disaster), I expect the person manning the ship to be devoting the best of his time and attention to the problem. As I said, there is no concrete evidence that he is not doing exactly that, but it's fairly reasonable to speculate that his recent lecture circuit and the demands of the Olympic team are detracting from his ability to do so.

Speculation. But reasonable speculation.

I haven't seen any suggestion from Burke that he's doing anything at all regarding the Flames. This is obviously not the case, and it's not reasonable to expect him to air his day-to-day Flames-related activities in the media. On the flip side, it is reasonable to expect hand-wringing from the fan base given that this is probably the worst team the Flames have ever iced, we've just fired our GM, and our President of hockey ops appears to be gallivanting around doing other stuff.

Yeah, executives can have hands in multiple pies. But when one pie is on fire and going to explode, that pie should get all of their attention. That doesn't appear to be the case here, and often all we can do as fans is react to appearances.

[indes]

Originally Posted by New Era

It kind of pisses me off that Burke is so heavily invested in the olympic effort. Frankly, I don't give a crap about the olympics. I wish Burke felt the same way. I want him to focus all of his attention on the Calgary Flames and fixing the problems that plague this team. I want him getting up close and personal with our prospects so he completely understands what we have in the system. I don't want to hear any bull#### about him not thinking much of our system, simply because he doesn't know the players in the system! If Burke doesn't want to look after the store, get someone in to do it. I hate to see this team spinning its wheels and facing a lost season, but that is what appears to be on the horizon. A lot of opportunity missed.

So if I understand you correctly, and God knows that's a stretch;

You're upset that half way through the first year of the rebuild we have no "star power" and are losing games? Players in the system are just that, in the system. It takes time for these players to develop and seasons will be "lost" along the way. To think that the Flames and Oilers are even in the same league with our 0.5 rebuilding seasons compared to their 7 seasons rebuilding is asinine. Almost every credible source has stated that trade talks are minimal so far this year, so calm down and be patient. The sky is not falling

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

It kind of pisses me off that Burke is so heavily invested in the olympic effort. Frankly, I don't give a crap about the olympics. I wish Burke felt the same way. I want him to focus all of his attention on the Calgary Flames and fixing the problems that plague this team. I want him getting up close and personal with our prospects so he completely understands what we have in the system. I don't want to hear any bull#### about him not thinking much of our system, simply because he doesn't know the players in the system! If Burke doesn't want to look after the store, get someone in to do it. I hate to see this team spinning its wheels and facing a lost season, but that is what appears to be on the horizon. A lot of opportunity missed.

Seriously? What "opportunity" did the Flames miss this season with Burke asleep at the wheel?

With regards to your whining, it's not like Burke just up and decided one day to start scouting and advising for the US Olympic team. He is honouring a commitment that he made over six years ago. Don't underestimate the sort of professional good will that these sorts of appointments potentially yield down the road.

[Nuckleduster]

So Messier has found something else to leech from. At least it's the Oilers.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't see how the Oilers have any direction whatsover, their draft record and lack of results kind of proves that.

The Flames are fresh into a rebuild, Burke came on board last year and the first thing he did is evaluate the front office manager, and when he found the results weren't there we tossed him. That in itself shows more organizational strength the the Oilers who's idea of an evaluation is. Is the owner a fan of his from his playing days in Edmonton? How does he look in pajama's. On top of that there is no accountability in the Edmonton system from top to bottom.

I'd far rather have the situation we are in then Edmonton. At least we finally have a strong good hockey personality at the top of the hockey department. Now where we go and who we hire at the GM spot might change that, and whether the GM wants to bring on his own coaches will be interesting to watch.

In terms of scouting, it just seems like the Oilers scouting is a utter disaster, outside of the first round they have found nothing significant. The Flames had the same issue for years, but it seems to me that the Flames outside of first round drafting has significantly improved over the last couple of years and that's where the emphasis has to be.

The Flames seem to have a strategy in place in terms of what they want. They've got the makings of a decent blueline depending on who developes and they've picked up a couple of strong looking prospect goaltenders, and they look like they're focusing on the center position. And they seem to understand what winning teams are doing in terms of size and speed.

the Oilers are following a 30 year old model that doesn't work in the NHL.

We're in year one of a rebuild. I don't care what Oiler fans say, they've been rebuilding since their stanley cup run and never gotten it right.

Now the Oilers are a cap team, that could lose all of their goaltending and their blue line in the off season as most of their dmen are UFA's or RFA's that might be looking at the door. If that happens then the Oilers won't have a choice but to rebuild because they don't have much in the pipe that's going to be ready to step in.

The Flames are in year one, it could go good it could go bad. The Oilers are a burning house with the roof about to fall in and the so called fire fighters are too busy yelling at the media and the fans.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by New Era

I'd be careful about pointing and laughing at the Oilers right now. Our team is a bigger joke and getting worse. The Oilers direction is flawed and laughable, but they have some semblance of direction. What is our direction again? Truculence? Our front office is a mess because it doesn't exist. We are at one of the most important points in team history, at a crossroads so to speak, and we don't even have a GM or a guy whose primary interest is our hockey club. We have no reason to point a finger at anyone right now and laugh at their mismanagement. We're circling the drain and trying to take solace there is another turd caught in the same vortex. That's a new low watermark if you ask me.

Uh we can point and laugh at that pathetic team up north all we want. They just keep giving and giving in the laugh department.