Signing our College Prospects

[FBI]

Man. This thread is getting me even more nervous.

[dustygoon]

Feaster has to consider signing Gaudreau's brother to an AHL contract.....maybe even a two way (hate to use one of the 50 but could be well spent). Helps attract JG, but more importantly, blocks another team from signing the brother and playing that brother card.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Pure speculation, but in pretty sure I've read in multiple places that Gaudreau's dad is very adamant that he wants his son to finish his degree.

From what I understand that's true... IIRC the scuttlebut is that Johnny isn't a dedicated student and his parents are worried that if he signs early and leaves school that he won't go back to school if he doesn't make it (which at his size is a legitimate concern) in the NHL. They're just looking out for his best interests. The odds are long that any prospect makes it in the NHL

Even if he does go back there is still no reason to be concerned, I mean Hanowski became a member of the Flames organization just weeks before graduating (and thus had absolutely zero attachment to the club) and he still signed. He (Hanowski) didn't have a picture of himself in a Flaming C as his twitter pic, he didn't go to Flames prospect camps, he didn't have a big sign with flames on it proudly declaring his afflication to the Flames in his front yard and he still signed.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

??????????????

Name one poster "hoping" that Johnny hockey will not sign with the flames.

All some posters are saying is that if he plays his 4th year in NCAA, its not a sure bet that he will sign with the flames. Nothing wrong with analyzing all aspects when it comes to Gaudreau. I am sure the flames are looking at the situation at all angles also.

So any junior age player not signed immediately after being drafted should be traded? Any junior aged player from this past draft not signed by next June should be traded away for fear of losing them to either free agency or going back into the draft? That's just irrational thinking. There have been more junior aged players refuse to sign and re-enter the draft than there have been college players who have used the free agency clause, so maybe we should start trading those players away. Hell, maybe we should just stop participating in the draft all together. There's just too much risk that these kids will thumb their nose at the way the system works, and pays them handsomely, and then themselves assume the massive risks associated with free agency. There are just some posters that want to find the dark black core of every possible cloud and stir it up into a hurricane of discontent, no matter how sunny the situation. Makes following this team and this board pretty tough at times.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

It's pretty straight forward.

Gaugreau is a de facto free agent as soon as he goes back for his 4th year. All he has to do is wait a couple of weeks after the end of the season, and he is free to sign with any club in the NHL.

Him and his father have said that they want him to finish his college education. And if he does, we will be simply left hoping that he chooses the Flames.

You might say it's the path of least resistance for him to stay in the Flames organization, but you could just as easily say the path of least resistance is to stay in Boston.

He very well could sign with the Flames. But there's nothing alarmist about pointing out that there is no concrete reason for him to do so.

The one concrete reason I can think of for him to do so is the Flames are the only team that can offer him a few games at the end of the season to burn up a year of his ELC, getting him to free-agency sooner.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Parallex

From what I understand that's true... IIRC the scuttlebut is that Johnny isn't a dedicated student and his parents are worried that if he signs early and leaves school that he won't go back to school if he doesn't make it (which at his size is a legitimate concern) in the NHL. They're just looking out for his best interests. The odds are long that any prospect makes it in the NHL.

People cannot appreciate just how impressive it is to have a degree from a school like Boston College. That opens so many doors, so why not take what is being given to you and have that as your backup plan? It makes all the sense in the world. Says his father has a good head on his shoulders. Speaking of his father, I think people should read the article posted in this thread about his background and how he raised his boys. Seems to have a very level headed approach to things and I doubt he would do anything that was not in his son's best interest. I seriously doubt he would encourage his son to pull a delta bravo move like using the Schultz clause when the Flames have been very good in respecting his wishes and working with him and his family to do what is best for John. The Gaudreaus seem like good people, so I believe they will do the right thing. Johnny Hockey will be a Calgary Flame.

Even if he does go back there is still no reason to be concerned, I mean Hanowski became a member of the Flames organization just weeks before graduating (and thus had absolutely zero attachment to the club) and he still signed. He (Hanowski) didn't have a picture of himself in a Flaming C as his twitter pic, he didn't go to Flames prospect camps, he didn't have a big sign with flames on it proudly declaring his afflication to the Flames in his front yard and he still signed.

Blasphemy! Logic shall not be applied to the Johnny Gaudreau issue.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by New Era

pull a delta bravo move like using the Schultz clause

Just to hopefully stop this from becoming engraved as a thing what most people are calling "The Schultz Clause/Loophole" is in fact not. The Schultz thing was that since he played a year of Junior hockey after being drafted and then went to school his exclusive negotiating rights expire after graduation or if he leaves school after a set period from when he was drafted (4 years) whereas for someone who goes to the NCAA immediately after being drafted the exclusive rights extend until graduation. The Schultz & Wheeler thing is that they got to leave after their junior year with open negotiation rights.

There are no current Flame prospects for whom this difference exists. All them proceeded immediately to the NCAA. Jankowski was considering playing a year in the USHL before school but opted to go straight to College.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by New Era

So any junior age player not signed immediately after being drafted should be traded? Any junior aged player from this past draft not signed by next June should be traded away for fear of losing them to either free agency or going back into the draft? That's just irrational thinking. There have been more junior aged players refuse to sign and re-enter the draft than there have been college players who have used the free agency clause, so maybe we should start trading those players away. Hell, maybe we should just stop participating in the draft all together. There's just too much risk that these kids will thumb their nose at the way the system works, and pays them handsomely, and then themselves assume the massive risks associated with free agency. There are just some posters that want to find the dark black core of every possible cloud and stir it up into a hurricane of discontent, no matter how sunny the situation. Makes following this team and this board pretty tough at times.

Bad post on your part. As you said junior players go back into the draft and have to go through the whole process again. NCAA players that play for 4 years become UFA. Those 2 situations are nothing like each other.

There is only a "black cloud" if you want it to be. Does Johnyy Hockey have options if he plays all 4 years? Yes he does.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

NCAA players that play for 4 years become UFA.

So do Junior players. NCAA players have no "advantage" over Major Junior players. They all gain open negotiating rights at about the same time. Junior players don't go back into the draft after four years, they go back after two (2+2 still =4 last time I checked).

To say otherwise is just chicken littling.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Parallex

So do Junior players. NCAA players have no "advantage" over Major Junior players. They all gain open negotiating rights at about the same time. Junior players don't go back into the draft after four years, they go back after two (2+2 still =4 last time I checked).

To say otherwise is just chicken littling.

Good point but i would like to see the list of highly sought after UFA's that pass on 2 teams that have drafted him.

Gaudreau is not Hanowski. I highly doubt that 28 teams would have been vying for him if he opted not to join the flames. Nor would i see the potential for endorsement deals for Hanowski, like i do for Gaudreau if he keeps up his play.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Bad post on your part. As you said junior players go back into the draft and have to go through the whole process again. NCAA players that play for 4 years become UFA. Those 2 situations are nothing like each other.

There is only a "black cloud" if you want it to be. Does Johnyy Hockey have options if he plays all 4 years? Yes he does.

Misunderstanding on your your behalf.

No Flames prospect falls into the Schultz situation, because Schultz was already a UFA in the eyes of the NHL at the start of his Final College season.

All of the Flames current NCAA players would have wait about 5 month after there final year to become UFAs. So at worset they would Fall into a Knight/Erixson situation. We would have the chance to trade them for assets if they do not want to player here.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Bad post on your part. As you said junior players go back into the draft and have to go through the whole process again. NCAA players that play for 4 years become UFA. Those 2 situations are nothing like each other.

There is only a "black cloud" if you want it to be. Does Johnyy Hockey have options if he plays all 4 years? Yes he does.

Worse post on your part. In similar comparisons junior aged players have the exact same rights as college players. If a junior player is redrafted, so he can achieve the same four years of rights ownership, and refuses to sign a contract, they can become a UFA as well. Even if you want to look at the original draft, the players can hold a gun to the head of the team by refusing to sign a deal, like Jarret Stoll and Matt Lombardi did with their teams. The exact same outcome exists in both scenarios. The team that drafted the player ends up with nothing.

You're also missing the point that the Flames own Gaudreau's rights until after the draft and free agent spending spree of 2015. They can make it pretty difficult on the player if he wants to head down that road. If the chicken littles are right, and Gaudreau is a closeted Bruins fan, the Bruins would have to leave a big chunk of cap space available to sign the kid. Do you think a lot of teams that have a chance of being competitive are going to leave that chunk of space sitting there for an unproven entity, passing up on proven players to help their chances of winning now? You're also missing out on why Schultz went where he did. Players want to play and contribute. Gaudreau will not have a high profile role with a team like Boston. Not until he does his time in the minors and a space opens up. The Flames will be able to afford that opportunity to Gaudreau immediately, likely without time in the minors. Nothing points to Gaudreau wanting out except someone suggesting that Boston has an unproven desire to trade for him because he is a star at Boston College. If that was the case, why didn't the Bruins go hard after Kreider, who was a bigger star, and for longer, than Gaudreau? Because it is bunk. It's like the media getting all upset at Calgary for not drafting Shinkaruk, because he's a Calgary boy. There's nothing substantial there. Save your worrying for other unimportant things, like will Iginla get honored the next time he comes to Calgary.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Pure speculation, but in pretty sure I've read in multiple places that Gaudreau's dad is very adamant that he wants his son to finish his degree, which pretty much guarantees that he'll go back to college for his senior year. He'll also get to play with his little bro for 2 years if he plays all 4 years. I don't think Feaster should trade him immediately if he decides to go back after this upcoming year, but it does make me a little more nervous about signing him. I hope he has a great time and the developmental camp and Feaster and Co. Are constantly in his year about how great it is here. We also ran the same risk with Ramage and he signed without incident, but he wasn't be as nearly sought after as Johnny likely will be.

I think those fears may be a touch overblown. Gaudreau has obvious size concerns regarding his ability to be successful at the next level. So it would be pretty silly for him to be one and done, or even two and done in the NCAA. He's not ready. And if you're his dad, you don't want to see your son throw away a free ride at Boston College so he can go get his brains hammered out in the AHL for a few years before he eventually has to try to make it in the real world.

After year three, he is more developed as a man, there are more and better indicators that he might be successful in the NHL, and only a couple semesters separate him from that degree. Semesters that would be paid for with ten percent of his signing bonus, which is going to be as max a deal as Feaster can give him.

Especially if he wins an NCAA title next year, I'm all but certain he leaves school early.

Originally Posted by New Era

People cannot appreciate just how impressive it is to have a degree from a school like Boston College. That opens so many doors, so why not take what is being given to you and have that as your backup plan? It makes all the sense in the world. Says his father has a good head on his shoulders.

I don't disagree, however Johnny Hockey might be the most famous BC athlete since Matt Ryan. If he wants to come back when he's done playing, he'd be welcomed back with open arms.

Also not sure how many doors a BC degree opens vs playing in the NHL for even a few years. He seems well-set up for any future career moves.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Nor would i see the potential for endorsement deals for Hanowski, like i do for Gaudreau.

Oh argle-bargle... endorsement deals? Who is going to give John Gaudreau an endorsement deal? Let's assume for a minute that he does hold out and signs with, say... Boston, are you going to honestly try and tell me that any company that's looking for an athletic endorsement deal is going to elect to hire Johnny Gaudreau over a member of the Red Sox, Celtics, Patriots, or Chara/Bergeron/Marchand/any other Bruin (or any other nationally or internationally famous athlete)?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Semesters that would be paid for with ten percent of his signing bonus

... a couple of semesters at Boston College is 50K. It's more like all of his signing bonus not 10%.

[Coach]

Whether Gaudreau signs before he's done, or finishes his degree, I am confident and optimistic that he will be a Calgary Flame.

[Weiser Wonder]

The problem with the loop hole is not that most players will take it. The problem is that the better a prospect progresses the less likely he is to sign. Say Gaudreau really breaks out in his senior year and becomes a top prospect, will he really not be tempted to look elsewhere?

So the ceiling for college prospects that sign becomes lower. Especially when you're talking about project players (like Gaudreau and Jankowski), who might need the 4 years to develop.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by New Era

The Gaudreaus seem like good people, so I believe they will do the right thing. Johnny Hockey will be a Calgary Flame.

You complain about posters not applying logic and panicing but what you post here is just wishful thinking. Hockey is a business and JG should look out for his best interests because the flames and everyother team will look out for theirs. There is no such thing as "The Right Thing" only what was negotiated in the collective bargaining agreement.

Calgary does have 2 advantages over other teams that may give us an advantage after year 4. We can burn a year off of his ELC by signing him early provided we maintain a contract spot on the 50 player roster for him. And our team will likely have a place for him to play as we won't be competitive quite yet.

We can't offer him being a home town star. One only needs to look at the guy we just stole from Florida to see a player that choose his home town over doing what you say is "The Right Thing".

I think he comes out after this season and decides not to finish his degree. I would assume that he isn't taking full classes anyways so after 4 years he would still have a few classes to complete before getting his degree so the difference is 15 classes to go vs 5 classes to go rather than a degree vs no degree. That is purely speculative though.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Oh argle-bargle... endorsement deals? Who is going to give John Gaudreau an endorsement deal? Let's assume for a minute that he does hold out and signs with, say... Boston, are you going to honestly try and tell me that any company that's looking for an athletic endorsement deal is going to elect to hire Johnny Gaudreau over a member of the Red Sox, Celtics, Patriots, or Chara/Bergeron/Marchand/any other Bruin (or any other nationally or internationally famous athlete)?

Not every endorsement deal is a multi million $ paying gig. Go down to major markets in the states and look at some of the bench warmers in pro sports that do commercials for local companies. These companies can not afford to hire the Kobe Bryant's or Tom Brady's of the world.

Do not live in Calgary so i can't comment on what sort of local endorsement deals are offered or aired in campaigns.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Do not live in Calgary so i can't comment on what sort of local endorsement deals are offered or aired in campaigns.

Lots of players have deals with local car dealerships. Not sure if they just get free use of cars or actual cash but that is the most common endorsement I can think of for the non tier 1 stars.