I think the biggest problem is that everyone thinks they're a comedian. You can get away with saying almost anything if you're funny about it, but Daniel Tosh and Michael Richards found out that you better be damn sure you're funny if you're going to talk about issues as sensitive as rape and lynching. Or at least you better be funny about it if you aren't hiding behind the anonymity of a computer screen, which allows you to be a jackass with no repercussions.
Louis CK manages to talk about rape while being funny, but 99% of the people out there do not. Here's Lindy West reading some of the comments that were directed to her after her fairly thoughtful appearance on Totally Biased. Really disgusting stuff.
Tosh and Michael Richards are vastly different situations. Tosh asked the audience what he should talk about. Some gut yelled out 'rape'. Tosh responded 'right, because what isn't funny about rape?'. At this point he is mocking the guy who made the suggestion.
Then, some entitled lady who thinks everything is about her goes'actually, rape is never funny'. Only then does he say'how funny would it be if like five guys raped her right now?'. Which to any reasonable thinking person translates to'shut the #### up stupid, this isn't about you and nobody here cares what you have to say'. There is absolutely nothing wrong with anything he does here. If a person opens their mouth and interacts with the comedian, they immediately become fair game. Comics can lose an audience based on how they react to interruptions. Tosh didn't lose the room. He's in the clear. Tosh. O is still on the air, so he wins.
Michael Richards crossed a line in his prepared act. When an audience member called him out, he didn't handle the situation in a manner that endeared him to good audience. There was no joke in his reaction. '100 years ago you'd be hanging from a tree with a fork in your ass'. Whatever he was doing before he snapped, there was a way to perform it correctly. And deal with potential backlash. He didn't do that, and he hasn't worked since as a result.
Why? Because reasonable people can discern intent.
And yes, people on the internet are c#nts. This is well established. If I have an issue with the lady in the Norton video, it's that made the discussion about her. It wasnt. Nobody addressees her as the subject of a joke at any point, and I guarantee she's never been to a comedy show where she was the butt of rapey humour. Norton talked about freedom of expression. She talked about calling him a dick and asked why her vagina needed to be fodder. It doesn't because it isn't. Most things are not about you specifically.
__________________ ”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
Rowan Roy W-M - February 15, 2024
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GreenLantern2814 For This Useful Post:
I can't recall what set the whole thing off. What specifically in the prepared act crossed the line?
I cannot for the life of me remember. I might be incorrect; a quick google has only shown me that the guy interrupted him. Which I recall from reactions was because he wasn't doing very well, but I could be misremembering that too.
Simply going on the story and facts I've just read, however, I would still argue that Tosh and Kramer are two very different issues. Re-watching the video, the audience is actually with him when he makes the fork in the ass comment. It's only after he starts shouting n-bombs that everyone goes 'oh wait, this isn't cool'.
Daniel Tosh finished his set and carried on living his life. Richards was just finished.
__________________ ”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
Ok, first off: the joke is inappropriate. But I guess that's just my opinion.
Second: stuff
Dude, I wrote in that I didn't think before I posted! Should I have erased it? I think removing the comment would have been dishonest. Instead I'd rather write about how stupid I was and how I didn't think.
The Following User Says Thank You to To Be Quite Honest For This Useful Post:
The difference between Tosh.O and Kramer is that even though Kramer was doing a comedy show, his comments were made out of anger, not comedic, he was raging.
__________________
The only thing better then a glass of beer is tea with Ms McGill
Meh, people were ok with all those witty remarks about that guy who got his head cut off on the Greyhound bus, and I don't see how that's any less tragic than being raped. If that's ok to a lot of you, why wouldn't rape jokes be?
I really can't recall seeing stand-up jokes about Hiroshima, abortion, or the greyhound beheading. Since those are apparently being thrown around in this thread as equally "offensive" to rape jokes. And since they're out there being made by some comedian somewhere, rape jokes are now "funny, but tasteless. But ultimately ok because someone once joked about Hiroshima!"
It's statistically improbable that you DON'T know someone who's been raped. But I guess the prevalence of sexual violence in our society really just adds to the hilarity. :/
The Following User Says Thank You to Peanut For This Useful Post:
How many aborted fetuses have you seen taking in a comedy show? How many big tobacco executives or people who may become big tobacco executives do you think are in the average comedy club? Rape is different because, in almost every crowd, there will be both rapists (or potential future rapists) and rape victims.
I may be going to different comedy shows than you but I doubt that in almost every crowd there are rapists, rape victims seems like a huge stretch as well.
It's statistically improbable that you DON'T know someone who's been raped. But I guess the prevalence of sexual violence in our society really just adds to the hilarity. :/
I kind of doubt that. I find it unrealistic that 1 in 3 women were sexually assaulted, but even if that number is correct, sexual assault does not necessarily equal rape. Personally, I view this whole attitude that there are so many male rapists out there to be very misandristic.
The Following User Says Thank You to Ark2 For This Useful Post:
No offense, but you are talking out of your ass. You said that the problem with rape jokes is that they could trigger a strong emotional response from someone that has been raped. See below:
I don't think I was talking out of my ass actually. In one comment I was saying why I don't think it's ok for comedians to joke about rape. In the other comment I was talking about why it made sense to me that advertisers would pull money out of comedians joking about rape, but not from movies depicting rape.
I kind of doubt that. I find it unrealistic that 1 in 3 women were sexually assaulted, but even if that number is correct, sexual assault does not necessarily equal rape. Personally, I view this whole attitude that there are so many male rapists out there to be very misandristic.
I find your attitude to be minimizing and downplaying the problem of sexual violence againt women and children in our society. Pretty tough to have an informed discussion when your very first point is "I don't believe the statistics". And not based on any fact or other statistics on your part... You just don't "feel" like that many women are being raped and/or sexually assaulted.
Most rapes and assaults are not perpetrated by strangers. They are acquaintances, relatives, "friends", dates, and even boyfriends and husbands. http://www.rainn.org/statistics
I find your attitude to be minimizing and downplaying the problem of sexual violence againt women and children in our society. Pretty tough to have an informed discussion when your very first point is "I don't believe the statistics". And not based on any fact or other statistics on your part... You just don't "feel" like that many women are being raped and/or sexually assaulted.
Most rapes and assaults are not perpetrated by strangers. They are acquaintances, relatives, "friends", dates, and even boyfriends and husbands. http://www.rainn.org/statistics
Either you can make fun of everything or you can make fun of nothing. Everyone will always have a legitimate reason that you shouldn't make fun of their thing. You can't please everyone, nor should you ever try.
So yes, rape victims? We feel bad for you. Now either don't go to comedy shows, or sit back and laugh with the fat people, blacks, Asians, Jews, Christians, whores, ######bags, jocks, celebrities, politicians, and the handicapped. you're not that special.
__________________ ”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
Rowan Roy W-M - February 15, 2024
The Following User Says Thank You to GreenLantern2814 For This Useful Post:
Either you can make fun of everything or you can make fun of nothing. Everyone will always have a legitimate reason that you shouldn't make fun of their thing. You can't please everyone, nor should you ever try.
So yes, rape victims? We feel bad for you. Now either don't go to comedy shows, or sit back and laugh with the fat people, blacks, Asians, Jews, Christians, whores, ######bags, jocks, celebrities, politicians, and the handicapped. you're not that special.
