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Old 09-26-2012, 04:23 PM   #41
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Did the same thing in high school shop, only it hit a little lower than my gut.
Yeah, use a table saw often enough, you're going to get a kickback.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:27 PM   #42
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My neighbor has 4.666 fingers left. Counting both hands. He looks like a lobster. After he lost his left middle and index fingers at the same time, he was forced to retire. He now builds cabinets and furniture for his grandchildren, with four and two-thirds of his fingers.

Every time he lost a finger, he would go to the hospital then polish off a few bottles of cheap whiskey.

I could not imagine what that would be like (losing a finger, not the whiskey)
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:59 PM   #43
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This, to me, is horrific to think about.
This is pretty much what I did, and for the old time feel of having lost part of a finger to a power tool, I dumped whiskey on it to disenfect it, then I went back to work.
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:08 PM   #44
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I'm sure every single person whose hand has come into contact with a moving saw blade would gladly pay that price to avoid the situation.



They're not suing other manufacturers, they're lobbying the government to require a blade stopping mechanism on all saws sold in the USA. I don't like the methods, but it kind of makes sense. Over the years the vast majority of table saw users haven't proven themselves responsible enough to use their equipment safely (i.e using a splitter and an overhead guard). If people took proper precautions this technology wouldn't really need to exist but almost no one does.
Thanks for the correction. That's what I get for posting before looking it up myself. Here's a good online summary:

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Our take-away from this: the SawStop is a cool feature. If you can afford it, you should have it. We also believe that SawStop should stop their BS legal wrangling, make a decent deal to allow the technology to be incorporated more reasonably into saws, and redesign the damn thing so it doesn’t cost as much as a saw every time it stops. Finally, we suggest that everyone take a step back and think about how much they like their fingers. From picking one’s nose to pointing at the neighbor who can’t nail a fence board on straight, fingers do all our favorite things. Seriously, folks, use the damn safety features that already exist.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:04 PM   #45
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No kidding. I've been working with wood tools my whole life and the only time I have ever been close to cutting a finger off or hurt myself is when I didn't do safety first.

We have a guy that works in our shop that cut off his ring finger and half of a middle finger with a table saw. To be quite frank, it happened because he was a moron. Every Altendorf saw has safety features that if you use make it practically impossible to get your fingers close to the saw. He was reckless and stupid and lost a finger as a result.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:08 PM   #46
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I came into this thread expecting a "I think I just cut my finger off in a table saw, what should I do?" OP, followed by a half dozen posts telling him not to be stupid and go to ER, 1 post suggesting a natural remedy to really stick it to big pharma, and 3 posts diagnosing it as cancer.

One star.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:03 PM   #47
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Thanks for the correction. That's what I get for posting before looking it up myself. Here's a good online summary:

Link.
Yeah, the lawsuit was the floor installer's insurance company suing Ryobi for not having a Sawstop type technology in its saw. But the thing is the guy doing the cut was breaking about every safety rule in the book when he got injured (no guard, no splitter, trying to freehand a cut on a table saw, etc.) so it was a pretty stupid lawsuit.

At the same time, this guy was probably trained to work like that and everyone he worked with probably didn't use proper safety equipment either. If users aren't willing to take safety seriously then manufacturers will probably have to start forcing it on them.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:46 PM   #48
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Power tools are the devil.
Back to the Tech sub-forum nerd!
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:13 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by saskflames69 View Post
My neighbor has 4.666 fingers left. Counting both hands. He looks like a lobster. After he lost his left middle and index fingers at the same time, he was forced to retire. He now builds cabinets and furniture for his grandchildren, with four and two-thirds of his fingers.

Every time he lost a finger, he would go to the hospital then polish off a few bottles of cheap whiskey.

I could not imagine what that would be like (losing a finger, not the whiskey)
I'm thinking drinking a little whiskey and using power tools was probably a contributing factor to the missing digits...
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:13 PM   #50
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I was taught wrong to use the jointer (do not wear gloves). There was no guard and it was early AM and I wasn't really awake. Lots of different blame to spread around myself included...

This is what my glove looked like after the incident, I got lucky. That was three years ago and this still stays in my tool bag as a memento...



EDIT: This was where the glove went it (sucked off my hand) leaving me without the pad of my middle finger (imagine that spinning at 2000 rpm)...again...I got lucky

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Old 09-26-2012, 09:15 PM   #51
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My friend from high school cut the tip of his thumb in welding i believe and it was hanging off the end. He got it stitched up and he's all good now but the tip of his left thumb looks all weird.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:20 PM   #52
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Yeah, the lawsuit was the floor installer's insurance company suing Ryobi for not having a Sawstop type technology in its saw. But the thing is the guy doing the cut was breaking about every safety rule in the book when he got injured (no guard, no splitter, trying to freehand a cut on a table saw, etc.) so it was a pretty stupid lawsuit.

At the same time, this guy was probably trained to work like that and everyone he worked with probably didn't use proper safety equipment either. If users aren't willing to take safety seriously then manufacturers will probably have to start forcing it on them.
Stupid lawsuit but they get filed all the time.

Company I used to work for had a guy killed in a machine. His wife sued the company and reached a settlement, but it was common knowledge around the place that the guy had to pretty much disable all the safety devices himself to put himself in that situation.

Another guy got his foot caught in a machine only because he was too lazy to follow lockout procedures.

Risk of injury is no competition against laziness.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:57 PM   #53
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Individual safety is influenced greatly by the safety culture of the company. If management prioritizes safety, the employees will too. If management ignores safety, the workers will ignore it too.

Wearing gloves while using most power tools is not a good idea. Your brain knows where the tips of your fingers are by instinct. It doesn't remember that gloves stick out a little further. Many power tools will snag your glove and pull your hand in using it.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:41 PM   #54
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Somewhat related... One Christmas when I was about 8 or 9 I was riding an exercise bike. My little cousin, who was 6 or 7 at the time, came over and stuck his right index finger into the spokes and took off everything past the first knuckle.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:22 AM   #55
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fianlly watch the whole video, gotta hand it to that guy for demo'ing his own invention, but I also noticed that he soaked his hand in a cooler - do many guys working in a woodshop do this? What wood happen if his hand would not have bene soaked?

wonder what his take up on this invention will be?

* did you notice my play on words - would = wood?
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:35 AM   #56
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I have more than 25 years of experience pushing things through saws and saws through things...take this as you wish.

It's mostly down to experience levels...properly identifying the potential danger of a particular operation you're performing, on the particular machine you're using. The other major contributor is overconfidence on the part of someone with "time in", who (for whatever reason) chooses to ignore what their gut is telling them.

Then there are situations where no amount of caution/experience would have changed the outcome one whit.

Case in point?

An extremely experienced flooring installer I know was freehand ripping a piece of "engineered" hardwood to close to a crooked wall. This particular product uses nylon cords in the core sandwich (kind of like post-tension cables in concrete) to increase the stability. Somehow the saw blade grabbed one or more of these cords and in a split second, the saw sucked the board and one of his hands down through the front of the blade.
Even if the splitter/guard assembly had been installed it would not have changed the outcome.
In such a ("one in a million") situation? Yes, the saw stop would be a benefit.

I rip freehand all the time; many times it's the quickest way to get the bulk removal in a particular operation done (i.e. scribing wall fillers in a cabinet installation). Critical to safety in operations like this (where you're "pushing the envelope"), are high quality blades/cutters, sharpened/maintained properly. Using the proper blade (tooth count/removal pattern) for the material and the rated horsepower of the saw you're working with is also paramount. Above all is the experience to guide such a cut through the tool manually, without running off line and creating forces that will cause a "problem". Equally important is recognizing the onset of anything "out of the ordinary" and stopping the tool to re-evaluate the operation. Knowing how to use simple jig and temporary fence techniques to perform dangerous operations in the safest manner possible.
All of this taken together? This is what I mean by "experience".

Ignorance/indifference in these matters are where many, many of these "accidents" start. It's amazing how many "pro's" know little about basics like this...let alone all of the "handymen" out in the garage with their brand new Ryobi, garbage blades, eastern hard maple, and a six pack of beer.

I carry a half-dozen different tooth/chipout patterns for my 10" site saw alone and maintain/replace them rigorously. It's just another cost of doing business that goes into the price when I quote a job.

I have all of my fingers, although back when I was a young buck with a bit of "time in", I "felt the wind" once or twice...

The recent boom in the "DIY mentality" (and the resultant availability of "cheap" tools that have the potential to cause serious injury in unskilled hands) has contributed greatly to the need for such devices. IMO...they should absolutely be required on all the "cheapo" saws marketed to weekend warriors by the box stores.

In the "real world" I don't think they should be required, even if one would have saved my friend's hand. I know that it would only take one or two "false trips" (trashing a $100-$200 blade in the process) before experienced guys would toss it aside or disable it anyways.

OTOH, "Mr Handyman" will just go back to the box store for another 2 pack 10" Samona combo blade set...

...on sale all this week for only $39.99.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:27 AM   #57
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knew someone in junior high shop class while working on a wood lathe, the turning knife slipped and pierced his hand like he was Jesus
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:19 PM   #58
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I think my first experience with any kind of rotating saw I got kickback from a 2x4 that I was cutting. Even though I wasn't hurt or anything, I have had a healthy respect for any power tools, especially the ones that need to be plugged into a wall-outlet to operate.

I did once, recently, try to use my drill when putting a Philips-head drywall screw into a wall for a shelf. It was an awkward position and I had to use one hand to hold up the shelf bracket, and another to hold the drill with the screw loosely held in. The screw wasn't going into the wall, so I pressed harder on the drill slipped off the screw and ended up drilling into my thumb with the Philips screw bit.

So, in short, I blame Philips head screws.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:24 PM   #59
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When I was young I worked in a saw mill and one morning a woman cut off all her fingers with a chop saw. I remember hearing screams and seeing her run through the shop screaming with the shop foreman behind her with his hands together holding some something. Turns out he was carrying her fingers. Pretty crazy stuff. They managed to re-attach her fingers but I'm not sure if she ever got full use out of them or feeling.

That was a dangerous place. I even ended up with a 3" nail through my foot on that job lol.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:29 PM   #60
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I have more than 25 years of experience pushing things through saws and saws through things...take this as you wish.
While I respect your opinion and your experience, IMO free hand ripping without a splitter is never a truly safe operation no matter how sharp your blade is or how attentive you are. Lots of guys might get through life without having an accident, but lots of others will be maimed simply because they didn't use the correct tools or jigs for the job. Free hand ripping just seems pointless when there are much better tools for the job (track saw, taper jig, etc.).
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