Immigrants costing taxpayers $16 to $23 Billion annually.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

What's "unfortunate" about that?

Well it seems that the system is allowing some real low grade morons to come here.

Example - the Kenyan/Sudanese/Somalian immigrants in Edmonton shooting eachother over drugs.....send these people packing.

^^Wow longsuffering, "hateful"? Really?
I think that word gets thrown around a little too easily here....

[MarchHare]

Well it seems that the system is allowing some real low grade morons to come here.

Example - the Kenyan/Sudanese/Somalian immigrants in Edmonton shooting eachother over drugs.....send these people packing.

Are you saying that if we had a closed door immigration policy but native-born Canadian citizens started having enough babies to replace themselves, drug-related violence would be reduced?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Our current immigration system doesn't work. We give preference to "professionals" and those "professionals" end up working as cabbies and janitors because they cannot get Canadian accreditation for their education.

.. and then once you arrive he you are allowed to bring over your immediate family, not matter what their skills are, under the family re-unification policy....

And they all get to go on welfare til they get a job, they get taught english as a second language, and all the other perks Canada offer our recent immigrants.

I think we need to re-think who we allow to immigrate as the current point system is obviously not working.

My grandfather was a German immigrant who emigrated from Russia. He came over here as a farmer and homesteaded in Saskatchewan in the early 1900's. Back then Canada needed farmers and he stepped up to the line. He didn't get any government hand-outs and he learned English on his own. He raised 8 children and they all become productive Canadian citizens and some of his grandchildren have gone on to become doctors, lawyers, and engineers.

Not to take away from what your grandfather did, but the challenges facing modern immigrants are totally different.

Firstly, your grandfather was given a huge plot of free land:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Lands_Act

He came here with skills he already honed in his home country, was then given free land, and settled in a community where his ethnicity and religion were totally accepted. As you yourself said, current immigrants are faced with a totally different set of challenges. Their work history/education is not respected. They are forced to work awful jobs for near minimum wage. Living on minimum wage is ridiculously hard these days.

North American society is now entrenched and it's much harder to move through social barriers. Things like what school you went to, who your parents know, etc.. are all much bigger barriers in NA than they were a hundred years ago. You can't just get a piece of land, work hard, and then profit. Even then, back in the day, that plan only really applied to European immigrants. We've come a long way since then, but things are nowhere close to fair.

Once again, I'm not trying to take away from the hard work your grandfather put in. However, now hard work just does not take you as far as it used to, if you don't start with certain advantages.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Are you saying that if we had a closed door immigration policy but native-born Canadian citizens started having enough babies to replace themselves, drug-related violence would be reduced?

Marginally.....if anything.

But no, that is not what I was saying. These people are criminals plain and simple, therefore they represent a net loss to society. Immigrants should be contributing something positive here whether driving cab or performing surgery. It should be a privilege to live in such a nice country like Canada.

Our immigration policy should be more selective is what I'm saying.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Marginally.....if anything.

Why even marginally?

But no, that is not what I was saying. These people are criminals plain and simple, therefore they represent a net loss to society. Immigrants should be contributing something positive here whether driving cab or performing surgery. It should be a privilege to live in such a nice country like Canada.

Our immigration policy should be more selective is what I'm saying.

What would be your selection criteria? Language? Education? Skills? What are the priorities.

When you say "these people are criminals" I presume you're referring specifically to those you mentioned before and not to immigrants in general. Correct?

[Azure]

Family status is a concern, and IMO you shouldn't be able to bring your 'retired' parents over unless you are here for at least 5-10 years as a working citizen.

I know people want to move here, but we can't afford to let immigrants come here and not become part of the workforce.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Why even marginally?

What would be your selection criteria? Language? Education? Skills? What are the priorities.

When you say "these people are criminals" I presume you're referring specifically to those you mentioned before and not to immigrants in general. Correct?

Why even marginally? It depends who or what entity fills their void....could go either way I guess.

"What would be your selection criteria? Language? Education? Skills? What are the priorities.?"

All of the above.....

I can't say exactly how these criminals are getting through due to the fact that I don't work in immigration, but something needs to be changed to improve the standard.

One of my best friends is an immigrant (landed) from Tokyo. He came, got the language, went to school, got a job, payed his taxes. Note - he did not shoot anybody or sell drugs to anybody. There are some great immigrants out there...

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Azure

Family status is a concern, and IMO you shouldn't be able to bring your 'retired' parents over unless you are here for at least 5-10 years as a working citizen.

I know people want to move here, but we can't afford to let immigrants come here and not become part of the workforce.

It's pretty much a 5-10 year waiting list now.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by troutman

Ah, The Fraser Institute. Ezra L., Rob A., and Danielle S. used to work at the Fraser Institute.

The Fraser Institute's school of spin
http://rabble.ca/books/reviews/2010/...spiracy-theory

Not to mention Tom Flanagan. My clearest memory of him is him recruiting and shilling for the Fraser Institute in the University classes he taught. Either that or his right-wing book that was largely derogatory towards the First Nations.

[icecube]

Tom Flanagan is one of the biggest racists there is.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

I agree with your post except for the internationally recognized education. There's a reason medical degrees from the middle east and other parts of the world aren't recognized. Same thing with engineering. Different standards. I don't want a doctor trained in that part of the world, sorry.

I used to say that, until somebody brought up a scenario. What if a doctor trained somewhere else was given work as a doctor assisting in an ER? Obviously for serious issues you would have a Canadian accredited doctor on staff. Have the 3rd world doctor taking care of the sprains, sore throats, etc.

Combine that with a program that allows them to attend school with the goal of getting full accreditation.

We could fix a number of issues from doctor shortages, wait times in ER, and let these people come here and do what they love to do.

[GirlySports]

You guys have to remember we have 2 leftist parties. If the current government does the common sense thing and tries to pull back on rights for immigrants, things such as more difficult for family reunification, tougher for over 65s, stronger points system, easier for sutdent visa or working visas to become PR etc.. you know that the bleeding-heart Liberals and NDPs will use this as firepower to retain all the existing laws if not allow more immigrants.

I hear this statement all the time "immigrants who never paid a dollar of tax, never contributed to Canada, why are they getting money"? You think about it and it makes sense but if a politician actually said that, it would be the end of his career.

Look at the issue of simply raising old age from 65 to 67 and hear how much the opposition is bashing the Conservatives. Immigration would be 10 times as heated.

[merlin]

the money for immigrants is nothing compared to the nation debt the baby boomers racked up!!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by merlin

the money for immigrants is nothing compared to the nation debt the baby boomers racked up!!

I was just going to mention that.

The debt problems we do have, and might have in the future will be not because of immigrants, but because of the baby boomers.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Azure

I was just going to mention that.

The debt problems we do have, and might have in the future will be not because of immigrants, but because of the baby boomers.

How so? Not disputing it, just interested in some examples.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

How so? Not disputing it, just interested in some examples.

A good chunk of boomers are going to die with massive amounts of debt. That debt doesn't just magically disappear.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Not to mention Tom Flanagan. My clearest memory of him is him recruiting and shilling for the Fraser Institute in the University classes he taught. Either that or his right-wing book that was largely derogatory towards the First Nations.

I had a class with Flanagan and while he bored me to tears I was surprised to later learn that he was one of Preston Mannings closest advisors and one of the "founding fathers" of the Reform Party. The Party was taking off at the time when he was my professor and I didn't notice any sort of spin from him whatsoever. He also never made any mention of First Nations issues.

It's that or maybe I wasn't paying attention in class...

[vanisleflamesfan]

Fraser Institute: "Ducking this issue calls for real leadership. People! Your taxes are high because of illegal immigrants! That's right, illegal immigrants! We need to get rid of them!

Canadian Public: "Immigants! I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears I knew it was them!"

[Thor]

lol I always think of Mo when I hear the word immigrants.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

How so? Not disputing it, just interested in some examples.

I won't presume to speak for Azure, but I agree with the statement.

The national debt was primarily racked up during the Trudeau and Mulroney years (68 thru 93), when the boomers demanded government services but didn't want to pay for them, we just borrowed the money. In 1970, around the start of the Trudeau years, total federal spending was 16 billion dollars per year. By the end of Trudeau's era, in '84 we were spending 22 billion IN INTEREST CHARGES ALONE!! Total government expenditures was now 109 billion. Sixteen billion to 109 billion under one prime minister (well, and Joe Who, but he doesn't count). And it didn't stop there. Mulroney increased spending up to 161 billion in '92. And it took Mulroney's GST and Paul Martin's slashing of transfers to the provinces to get us out of the banana republic state, but we still have a massive federal debt and are paying 31 billion in interest payments every year. It was the boomers that racked up that debt, but it's the Gen X and Gen Y that are trying to pay it off now.

However, it's only going to get worse. The boomers still control the politics of the country. They have the numbers and the votes. They will not be happy with any cuts to OAS, CPP or any other benefits they have coming to them. They will require more and more health care spending as well as social services for the elderly. The government just won't have the money to support the boomers in retirement, in part because of the overspending by the governments voted in by the boomers.