Immigrants costing taxpayers $16 to $23 Billion annually.

[troutman]

Canada’s immigration policy: Who is on the guest list?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle1913178/

Labour market shortages will grow in the coming years, as boomers retire in record numbers. How we bring people into Canada to meet our labour market needs will shape the evolving nature of Canada itself. Immigration and temporary foreign workers are two very different answers to the problem of how to sustain our standard of living.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by valo403

And what's to say that the immigrants coming over here now won't be telling the same story in 40 years minus the farming part? Canada doesn't have a need for farmers anymore, but it does have a need for other things.

Don't you mean minus the farming and government hand-outs part?

[Bill Bumface]

I'd love to see the numbers that show the tax-base generated by 2nd generation Canadians. A shot in the dark, but I bet we recoup those losses not too far down the chain from the parents that show up here.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I am curious how many of them worked with APEGGA to have their accreditation approved. It is an onerous process but APEGGA has exams you can write to validate your knowledge if you can't prove the validity of your education.
I am not sure what everyone else thinks should happen but I don't think we should hand out a permit to practice based on the anecdotal evidence of I used to be an engineer/doctor in my home country. In Canada the term Engineer implies a certain level of education, training and responsibility and I think it is important to maintain that. The same goes with doctors, lawyers, land surveyors and other professions.
Heck, if someone came over who used to be a police officer in their home country does anyone think we should give them a gun and a badge without any testing or training to make sure they know the Canadian laws and procedures.

I agree with the rest of them, but not lawyers. I don't want to write another exam.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Don't you mean minus the farming and government hand-outs part?

Right, because there were no subsidies granted to farmers at the turn of the century in an effort to settle the west

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by valo403

Right, because there were no subsidies granted to farmers at the turn of the century in an effort to settle the west

HOMESTEADS:
Dominion Land Grant Information

Dominion Lands Policy for settlement
*---Homesteads granted to settlers were 160 acres of land, and required a $10.00 fee for the Letters Patent. Males 18 years or older could apply or a male or female head of the family. Before receiving title to the land, they had to file evidence that they were British subjects by birth or naturalization.
Proving the land
*---Settlers had to live on their homesteads for a three year period, clearing and farming some of the land and making improvements. They had an option to purchase the quarter section next to theirs as a pre-emption, by paying the market price of the time which was about $2.00 acre. Even numbered sections were reserved for homesteads and pre-emptions, while odd-numbered sections were sold.
*--Upon recieving the Dominion Land Grant patent for a quarter section, the homesteader could apply for a pre-emption. This entitled him to purchase an additional 80 acres adjacent to the homestead at the rate of one dollar per acre. [later the rate changed to three dollars per acre]

Trust me... nothing was free. My grandparents worked their @sses off "proving the land".
Lived in a sod shack. Endured bitter winters burning dung for fuel. Plowed the land by hand.. in many cases they didn't even have a ox or a horse to pull the plow.. The man pulled it and the wife steered the plow. Many a nite they went to bed hungry.

Today's immigrant is living a life of luxury... don't even dare to compare the two.

[CaramonLS]

1) A lot of immigrants cannot start the recertification process until they get to Canada, further delaying their ability to join the workforce. This is a problem.

2) Rerun is correct on the professional system, it is a problem. It does not match jobs to needs. The number #1 job needed in Canada from employers is a Cashier. Not Doctor, engineer or lawyer, it is a retail cashier. We have a very disproportionate number of accountants, engineers and highly educated people who enter this country and cannot find jobs.

3) Obviously one of the biggest costs is refugees. In many cases these people are not able to work for 2-3 years because of their poor literacy skills. I understand both side of the coin on this issue.

4) Family status is an issue... should I be allowed to bring my 63 year old Father to Canada with me who will not provide any productive benefit to the workforce?

5) TFWs. Very few routes to permanent citizenship aside from the very hard to get approved for, PNP programs. Huge problem.

There are a lot of arguments for either side going on right now. Both sides have points. The Canadian system is far from perfect - one that I think needs a lot of changes, especially with the PNP programs and TFWs. Expanding the TFW program to allow companies to recruit qualified people, with incomes they can immediately step into is probably one of the biggest priorities in my mind.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Trust me... nothing was free. My grandparents worked their @sses off "proving the land".
Lived in a sod shack. Endured bitter winters burning dung for fuel. Plowed the land by hand.. in many cases they didn't even have a ox or a horse to pull the plow.. The man pulled it and the wife steered the plow. Many a nite they went to bed hungry.

Today's immigrant is living a life of luxury... don't even dare to compare the two.

Take it easy big guy, my grandparents did the exact same thing.

At the end of the day you're comparing two completely different worlds with two completely different sets of needs. Canada has evolved from a place where you get immigrants to come over and let them fight it out for themselves, and it's certainly not a place where people are treated differently based solely on their nationality.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Today's immigrant is living a life of luxury... don't even dare to compare the two.

Well comparatively so, EVERYONE leads a life of luxury compared to the 1900s. So really your point isn't as drastic or discriminatory as you think

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I am curious how many of them worked with APEGGA to have their accreditation approved. It is an onerous process but APEGGA has exams you can write to validate your knowledge if you can't prove the validity of your education.
I am not sure what everyone else thinks should happen but I don't think we should hand out a permit to practice based on the anecdotal evidence of I used to be an engineer/doctor in my home country. In Canada the term Engineer implies a certain level of education, training and responsibility and I think it is important to maintain that. The same goes with doctors, lawyers, land surveyors and other professions.
Heck, if someone came over who used to be a police officer in their home country does anyone think we should give them a gun and a badge without any testing or training to make sure they know the Canadian laws and procedures.

Exactly. I understand why it happens, but the reality is that it is very hard for these immigrants to do this.

Imagine you had to go work for the equivalent of unskilled labour wages in Russia, support your family and find time to jump through all the hoops required to validate your credentials there. All this while learning Russian and trying to become used to a totally different way of doing things.

The only real solution is to establish international guidelines so that if you have this degree/certificate/etc from this institution then it is equivalent to this degree/etc in Canada/US/etc. Then when a professional applies to come into the country and would like to have their credentials transfer, they are given the opportunity to do the work required in advance so when they get here they are either ready to go right away or close to it.

One particular guy I was friends with applied to come to Canada 3-4 years before he was allowed to. That time could have been easily spent doing things like this, with him earning his salary and supporting his family in the Philippines instead of here for a pittance.

[Northendzone]

i am glad that this tank is thinkin' bout stuff

[FlamesAddiction]

What is the percentage of immigrants that end up needing welfare or other types of subsidies.

I have no problem with immigrants being a 1st generation Canadian myself. The problem I have is that it seems like many do come over and expect a free ride. I know that when my family came over, we moved to a small town up north so my dad could work in a mine. It is my understanding that the Canadian government used to distribute immigrants and refugees in that fashion. It seems like today, most immigrants move to inner-cities regardless of whether that is where the jobs are and then tax payers are forced to pay for expansion and upgrades of ammenities to accommodate them.

I'm all for immigration, but there are a lot of places in Canada that could use them more than the places that seem to get them the most. It makes no sense. For example, a lot of doctors move to Canada from places like India and set up practices in Toronto and Vancouver while there is a huge doctor shortage up north. Shouldn't immigration be for that reason (ie. solve labour problems)?

[rubecube]

Yeah, immigrants were never given anything prior to the 1980s.

Regards,
United Empire Loyalists

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by Table 5

How much do the lazy home-grown Canadian portion of society cost taxpayers?

I'm doing my best to cost society as much as possible, but I'm only one man-child.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Exactly. I understand why it happens, but the reality is that it is very hard for these immigrants to do this.

Imagine you had to go work for the equivalent of unskilled labour wages in Russia, support your family and find time to jump through all the hoops required to validate your credentials there. All this while learning Russian and trying to become used to a totally different way of doing things.

The only real solution is to establish international guidelines so that if you have this degree/certificate/etc from this institution then it is equivalent to this degree/etc in Canada/US/etc. Then when a professional applies to come into the country and would like to have their credentials transfer, they are given the opportunity to do the work required in advance so when they get here they are either ready to go right away or close to it.

One particular guy I was friends with applied to come to Canada 3-4 years before he was allowed to. That time could have been easily spent doing things like this, with him earning his salary and supporting his family in the Philippines instead of here for a pittance.

I know a bit of Russian so I think I could make a go of it. Seriously though that is why they are allowed to start the process before they get here. They can fill out forms and study for exams from any location. And as for international standards, TILMA is only a few years old and it was a landmark agreement between Alberta and B.C. to formalize labour mobility requirements between the provinces. in my industry you still have to write an exam to transfer into B.C. The country has also recently passed the agreement on internal trade which is supposed to be similar between the whole country and it is tough to get all the provinces to agree on a standard for many professions. To normalize everything across the world would require one set of standard laws for many industries. Alberta has profession specific regulations that are independent of every other jurisdiction and it is important to make sure that someone coming into the province to work is aware and familiar with the local laws.

To the temporary worker program I would love to see something in place for TFW's to convert into permanent citizens. It seems wrong to bring in someone to do work in our country and then after a few years we tell them to go home you are no longer welcome here. Who would make a better immigrant than someone who is already here with stable employment. It also solves some of the isolated area issues as there would be more demand for TFW's in remote areas and they could be invited to stay.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Unfortunately, ...Canada needs the immigrants.

...because Canadians aren't having enough babies to replace themselves.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

i am glad that this tank is thinkin' bout stuff

Think Tanks are the grease that turns the wheel on our entire society.

My great-grandparents immigrated from Sweden 110 years ago and sweated in the Think Tank Mines up to four hours a day. They hunched over their sod desks, by the light of simple candle, filling their own inkwells and dispatching their opinions on paper that we wouldn't even put in a photocopier today.

This country was built on their labour.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Unfortunately, ...Canada needs the immigrants.

...because Canadians aren't having enough babies to replace themselves.

What's "unfortunate" about that?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Our current immigration system doesn't work. We give preference to "professionals" and those "professionals" end up working as cabbies and janitors because they cannot get Canadian accreditation for their education.

.. and then once you arrive he you are allowed to bring over your immediate family, not matter what their skills are, under the family re-unification policy....

And they all get to go on welfare til they get a job, they get taught english as a second language, and all the other perks Canada offer our recent immigrants.

I think we need to re-think who we allow to immigrate as the current point system is obviously not working.

My grandfather was a German immigrant who emigrated from Russia. He came over here as a farmer and homesteaded in Saskatchewan in the early 1900's. Back then Canada needed farmers and he stepped up to the line. He didn't get any government hand-outs and he learned English on his own. He raised 8 children and they all become productive Canadian citizens and some of his grandchildren have gone on to become doctors, lawyers, and engineers.

What a sad, uninformed, hateful rant. If you didn't write this strictly for effect, I don't know what to say to a person like you.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Flawed study that doesn't examine the economic impact of immigrants in our work force to do the jobs that other people won't do at the wages that are attractive to companies in Canada. So yes they do receive more government benefits (because of lower wages) and yes they usually work in lower paying jobs (therefore pay fewer taxes) because Canada is still poor at recognizing international accreditation but our overall economy and wealth would likely be much worse off without them and the net effect is probably positive.

Canada has an immigration policy like this because of our low population and low birthrate. The immigration policy is necessary to keep our economy working and keep businesses going.

I agree with your post except for the internationally recognized education. There's a reason medical degrees from the middle east and other parts of the world aren't recognized. Same thing with engineering. Different standards. I don't want a doctor trained in that part of the world, sorry.