Those who died too early: Overrated vs. Legitimately Good

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by cKy

How is that laughable? Tupac came out with more albums dead then alive. The only thing I would argue that suffered was his acting career.

Obviously but that's not what I was saying. He or she said that tupac would just be another rapper, he was already the best rapper when he was alive so I'm not sure how someone can say he'd just be another rapper. Obviously his death made him more famous, but he was already respected as the best rapper in the world before his death.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by tanguay'sstillgood

Jay Z and that one white dude say "what's up?"

The word "probably" also says "what's up" and if I'm not mistaken 50 cent has sold more albums than both those guys. But that doesn't even matter. The point I was making was that there has been no real challenge for rappers like tupac, biggie, eazy E since their deaths. The closest one that will probably hit the same status is eminem. I don't think many people consider Jay z a rapper anymore.

[Montana Moe]

Originally Posted by puckluck

...I don't think many people consider Jay z a rapper anymore.

I think you need to download "Watch the Throne".

Other people in Bruce Lee films - Kareem Abdul Jabbar

I'll add a couple people to ponder:

Robert Johnson
Hank Williams, Sr.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Montana Moe

I think you need to download "Watch the Throne".

Other people in Bruce Lee films - Kareem Abdul Jabbar

I'll add a couple people to ponder:

Robert Johnson
Hank Williams, Sr.

Robert Johnson - Legit
Hank Williams Sr - Overrated

[afc wimbledon]

I shall try to piss off everyone with one post here.

The Doors while an ok band would have been way less succesfull had they been from the UK, they were an LA band at a time US rock music was dominated by the British, as such there was a certain level of patriotic chauvanism about their promotion, they really weren't any better than Procul Harem or the Moody Blues.

Bruce Lee would not have become a mythic charachter had he not died, he would have probably followed a Norris, Seagal or Van Dam career curve just because martial art films are limited in their following, and his acting chops were at best ok. Had he made Fist of Fury 2, 3, 4, and 5 we would not view him in the same hallowed light.

Tupac was a passable rapper but rap is an industry that limits its performers to one or two succesfull albums in order to keep on exploiting young illeducated black kids and the young equally dumb white kids who buy their product, therefore Tupac and Biggie would have faded quicker than a mayfly had they not died, replaced by 50 Cent and Eminem regardless, who have since been replaced by etc etc etc.

Someone who did die too early, Otis Redding, who while he didn't die young, did die at the peak of his artistic powers and had he lived would have altered the direction of black music in the late 60's and 70's.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by puckluck

The word "probably" also says "what's up" and if I'm not mistaken 50 cent has sold more albums than both those guys. But that doesn't even matter.

You're pretty profoundly mistaken,

Jay-Z: 50 million albums sold
Eminem: 40 million albums sold.
50 Cent: 25 million albums sold.

Also, Jay-Z just passed Elvis Presley for the second most number 1 albums of all time behind only the Beatles.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I should clarify. I think Morrison is overrated. But I do think the Doors are legitimately good.

Agree, Freddie Mercury also deserves to be noted,great voice and a great band.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by T@T

Agree, Freddie Mercury also deserves to be noted,great voice and a great band.

I doubt his death was premature from a musical point of view though, they had pretty much created their cannon of great albums in the 70's, the bands later work was not even close.

[afc wimbledon]

Gilles Villeneuve

[T@T]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I doubt his death was premature from a musical point of view though, they had pretty much created their cannon of great albums in the 70's, the bands later work was not even close.

I'm thinking his sickness from the AIDS virus stymied his career and the bands. From what I remember he was sort of forced to go solo in the early 80's because 2 band members were freaked about the virus. One thing is for sure, Freddy had huge talent and died too soon.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Gilles Villeneuve

Greg Moore

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by T@T

Greg Moore

I was considering him, but thought he was in the 'might have been great' catagory as opposed to Villenueve who was already great according to his peers.

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

Legitimately tragic loss: Chuck Shuldiner, Phil Hartman

Overrated: Sid Vicious, Michael Hutchence

Chuck Schuldiner was a god among men, a tragic loss indeed. It's a damn shame that he died so young because of cancer. Also, considering those piece of utter s*** insurance companies wouldn't cover the costs and he had to delay the surgery to remove the tumors because of insufficient funds. He is one of my top 3 favorite guitarists and I'll always respect what he did for metal.

Also, when talking of guitarists who were taken too early, Dimebag Darrell and Randy Rhodes HAVE to be mentioned. Without Rhodes there is no way Ozzy has a solo career. He made Ozzy IMO.

[miraisoup]

[FlamesAddiction]

You can pretty much take any artist that dies young, and most of their work will be more revered than it would have been otherwise. Many of the most revered painters died poor and unknown. It's not like their work suddenly became better upon their death.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

You can pretty much take any artist that dies young, and most of their work will be more revered than it would have been otherwise. Many of the most revered painters died poor and unknown. It's not like their work suddenly became better upon their death.

Yes this is the essence of the question. Of those that died young and are put on the pedestal, did they become more famous because of death or legit whether they died or not.

[Sliver]

Shannon Hoon of Blind Melon died too young and was way underrated. People who think Blind Melon's only song was No Rain are missing out.

[Deelow]

Originally Posted by Nuje

Yep, it's true. I consider that a shame as I'm not a big fan at all, but I can't deny the influence.

..and In Utero is just as good in my eyes. Cobain was a complete original. Nirvana possibly had one studio album left in them before imploding. I often wonder how it would have sounded.

[FlamesAddiction]

Jim Morrison: I am personally a huge Doors fan. Near the end of Jim Morrison's life though, he was a drunken slob and was losing his voice. It also seemed like he was running out of ideas. I have know doubt that his death boosted his legacy and prevented him from becoming irrelevant.

Curt Cobain: I was a huge Nirvana fan and I do think that Curt Cobain changed the music scene for the better. I think he was a sign of the times though. The mainstream was desperately looking for something different and they came around at just the right time. Musically speaking, when I listen to new mainstream rock music, it doesn't sound all that much different than that of the early 90s, so I think that if Curt Cobain was still alive, he would still be relevant in music today at least among his original fans. I don't know if all the teeny boppers that wear Nirvana t-shirts would still care about him though. Personally, I liked him better when he was alive and never put him on a pedastal after he died.

Bob Marley: I think his death plays a big part on his legacy. I am a fan of his, but I think that his death created a much bigger cult of personality than what would have existed if he didn't die young. I can kind of see why though. He faced death head on and played some pretty remarkable live shows while he was on his last days. It was pretty inspirational.

Ian Curtis (Joy Division): I think he is way overrated because of his death. Not that I don't enjoy some of is stuff, but I think a lot of his contemporaries were better but less recognized.

Andy Kauffman: His fame is largely boosted because of his death.

Outside of the art community:

President Kennedy: Wasn't his approval rating actually quite low when he was assassinated? And what is his legacy other than being murdered? He had some foreign policies, particularly in Iraq, that had long term negative effects.

Terry Fox: Don't get me wrong, he is worthy of being put on a pedastal. Without dying and becoming a cancer martyr, I doubt that his deeds would have had the same long lasting effect. By dying, it added an exclamation point.

Jesus Christ: Like Terry Fox, the fame has a lot to do with the martyrdom.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Deelow

..and In Utero is just as good in my eyes. Cobain was a complete original. Nirvana possibly had one studio album left in them before imploding. I often wonder how it would have sounded.

Personally, I think Nevermind was artistically their weakest album.