The Athletic: How Sutter lost the room and his job

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

On reflection (and after my morning shower) my feeling on that is more sad than anything...sad that a man who was a legend of sorts in Calgary, and indeed in the NHL has "fallen", although in 20 years few will remember that part and he'll be recalled as a "tough coach" and that's all. Sad that the Flames management didn't right the ship when Sutter started to fall apart - either by convo with him or by moving him out THEN.

As to now: the players got their wish..."nice guys" everywhere. They damn well better play their asses off this year.

Can this garbage stop ffs.

None of the players cried or said give me the nicest coach ever.

Just like any good organization they did exit interviews and the players shared stories of what happened which probably included all the mental abuse coupled with the altercation and the management team investigated and fired the guy.

Many of these players have played for hard ass coaches and did really well, but Sutter took things too far its not a snowflake or nice coach thing.

Go listen to Andersson talk about Huska and how he can push you without the abuse part.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by redmile04

A source close to the flames told me this early in the season, and said it was Weegar. I did not believe it, did not tell anyone, post here, nothing as i thought it was 100% bogus despite the source generally being right always..

On a side note, what a player Weegar was the last third of the season. Turned into the defenseman we all hoped he would be. Terrific player when he's in his rythym.

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by redmile04

A source close to the flames told me this early in the season, and said it was Weegar. I did not believe it, did not tell anyone, post here, nothing as i thought it was 100% bogus despite the source generally being right always..

It was not Weegar

[blankall]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

On reflection (and after my morning shower) my feeling on that is more sad than anything...sad that a man who was a legend of sorts in Calgary, and indeed in the NHL has "fallen", although in 20 years few will remember that part and he'll be recalled as a "tough coach" and that's all. Sad that the Flames management didn't right the ship when Sutter started to fall apart - either by convo with him or by moving him out THEN.

As to now: the players got their wish..."nice guys" everywhere. They damn well better play their asses off this year.

Not just about being a nice guy. We ended up with the only coach in the NHL who would stop an ultra talented player like Huberdeau play his game.

It's all good when the team is winning, but when the team is losing and the coach refuses to adapt his game. Sutter was doing outrageous things, like putting Lucic out on the ice during must score times, instead of playing the stars. His love of slow vets over fast younger players just doesn't jive with the NHL anymore.

He had some success the first year and a bit in Calgary, but only because Gaudreau and Tkachuk found a way to score, in spite of Sutter's system. Even then, the Sutter system didn't carry that success into the playoffs.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by blankall

Not just about being a nice guy. We ended up with the only coach in the NHL who would stop an ultra talented player like Huberdeau play his game.

It's all good when the team is winning, but when the team is losing and the coach refuses to adapt his game. Sutter was doing outrageous things, like putting Lucic out on the ice during must score times, instead of playing the stars. His love of slow vets over fast younger players just doesn't jive with the NHL anymore.

Sutter's the type of coach that would give Marty McSorely top minutes and move Wayne Gretzky to the 4th line to make sure he wasn't getting too comfortable/playing too soft.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Sutter's the type of coach that would give Marty McSorely top minutes and move Wayne Gretzky to the 4th line to make sure he wasn't getting too comfortable/playing too soft.

Sutter would tell Gretzky to just take the outside shot, to improve analytics, instead of deking close to the net.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

It was not Weegar

how do you know?

[CliffFletcher]

This isn’t much different from when Sutter the GM left Calgary. Same stories of relief around the organization that the black cloud wasn’t hanging over everybody. Which is why it was surprising when he was brought back. But I guess fans and the media have short memories.

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

how do you know?

Because the source that shared the info about the incident with me said it was not Weegar

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

This isn’t much different from when Sutter the GM left Calgary. Same stories of relief around the organization that the black cloud wasn’t hanging over everybody. Which is why it was surprising when he was brought back. But I guess fans and the media have short memories.

Have you read the Iggy thread, people wish that it was 2004 again.

[Dan403]

People just won't put up with that abusive #### anymore. Read the room Darryl.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

It depends on what the conditions are in his contract or if it guarantees that money regardless of performance.

Personally I think the biggest loss for the Flames is if the presence of Sutter played into both the decisions of Gaudreau and Tkachuk departing. Clearly at one point, they were both closer to 50/50 on their decisions but many factors pushed them over and Sutter may have been one of them.

Life is too short to play for Sutter. Tkachuk said Maurice was the greatest coach he ever played for and I think he said that before the regular season started. Makes sense why he said it.

[GullFoss]

I think the Zadorov quote in the article said it best. The personalities of the new stars (Weager, Huby, Kadri) didn't mesh with Sutter and either Sutter or the players had to go . The organization was always going to chose the players on the $60m-$80m contracts over the coach.

Originally Posted by Athletic

“Last year, Sutter was the perfect coach for Calgary; this season the leaders have changed, and he did not suit them. They did not find mutual understanding,” Zadorov said in a translated interview. “When you invest $50-$80 million in players, you make a choice in their favor.”.

[FanIn80]

I never really thought the Pelletier thing was a big deal. I always took it as Sutter just saying, "why are you asking about a guy that only played 7 minutes and had one shot on goal." Kind of sarcastically saying... "who? what's his number again?" And then the "he's only 21, still has a long way to go" part was saying "relax, he's young, let him play some more before you start asking about him."

Then again, I'm from a different era I guess. It's probably a by-product of people growing up in a world where most communication happens via text or messages instead of talking. Like it seems younger people interperet things in a much more literal sense than what was often intended. Try watching youtube vidoes of people in their 20s listening and reacting to songs from the 70s and 80s. They're like, "I don't understand why this guy is talking about selling his soul though. Like no way am I ever doing that. You only get one soul! Why would sell that?!" It's like, "relax homie, nobody's out here literally trying to sell a soul. It was just a figure of speech that was meant to sound poetic or as a way of saying... yadda yadda yadda..."

Anyway, I've digressed, but that Pelletier thing always stood out to me as like... come on man, he obviously didn't mean it literally. He knows who the kid is, he's just trying to protect him for you guys writing crap every day about his progress (or lack of).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I think the Zadorov quote in the article said it best. The personalities of the new stars (Weager, Huby, Kadri) didn't mesh with Sutter and either Sutter or the players had to go . The organization was always going to chose the players on the $60m-$80m contracts over the coach.

I just don't think that abuse on any level is tolerable, but a lot of players in the NHL are so deeply embedded in a culture that has promoted it for so long that many of them are not even aware it is happening, and how damaging it is.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I never really thought the Pelletier thing was a big deal. I always took it as Sutter just saying, "why are you asking about a guy that only played 7 minutes and had one shot on goal." Kind of sarcastically saying... "who? what's his number again?" And then the "he's only 21, still has a long way to go" part was saying "relax, he's young, let him play some more before you start asking about him."

Then again, I'm from a different era I guess. It's probably a by-product of people growing up in a world where most communication happens via text or messages instead of talking. Younger people just aren't expose to things like sarcasm that often, since it's so hard to relay properly over text.

Like it seems younger people interperet things in a much more literal sense than what was often intended. Try watching youtube vidoes of people in their 20s listening and reacting to songs from the 70s and 80s. They're like, "I don't understand why this guy is talking about selling his soul though. Like no way am I ever doing that. You only get one soul! Why would sell that?!" It's like, "relax homie, nobody's out here literally trying to sell a soul. It was just a figure of speech that was meant to sound poetic or as a way of saying... yadda yadda yadda..."

Anyway, I've digressed, but that Pelletier thing always stood out to me as like... come on man, he obviously didn't mean it literally. He knows who the kid is, he's just trying to protect him for you guys writing crap every day about his progress (or lack of).

I think the players that didn't like Sutter were looking for reasons to turn opinion against Sutter both internally and externally. Same thing as "three players" alleged Sutter kicked a player on the bench.

I also think a lot of "poor play" is being pinned on Sutter and toxic dressing room, when in actuality it mostly comes down to Marky and Huby playing like ass.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I never really thought the Pelletier thing was a big deal. I always took it as Sutter just saying, "why are you asking about a guy that only played 7 minutes and had one shot on goal." Kind of sarcastically saying... "who? what's his number again?" And then the "he's only 21, still has a long way to go" part was saying "relax, he's young, let him play some more before you start asking about him."

Then again, I'm from a different era I guess. It's probably a by-product of people growing up in a world where most communication happens via text or messages instead of talking. Like it seems younger people interperet things in a much more literal sense than what was often intended. Try watching youtube vidoes of people in their 20s listening and reacting to songs from the 70s and 80s. They're like, "I don't understand why this guy is talking about selling his soul though. Like no way am I ever doing that. You only get one soul! Why would sell that?!" It's like, "relax homie, nobody's out here literally trying to sell a soul. It was just a figure of speech that was meant to sound poetic or as a way of saying... yadda yadda yadda..."

Anyway, I've digressed, but that Pelletier thing always stood out to me as like... come on man, he obviously didn't mean it literally. He knows who the kid is, he's just trying to protect him for you guys writing crap every day about his progress (or lack of).

From everything I've heard about this incident, it wasn't so much that Pelletier was hurt by this comment but the rest of the team was hurt by what they saw was unprofessional treatment of him by Sutter.

If you are on a team and a new, cheerful, happy young guy joins the team and gets publicaly dumped on by the boss, you want to stick up for the guy.

I also heard from insiders that everyone from players to coaching and front office staff were pissed off by Sutter's treatment of Pelletier's parents. Tre brought him up from the farm and everyone kept asking when his first game would be so they could schedule the parents to come be at the game and Sutter kept giving non-answers and jerking the family around because he was either playing his mind-games or didn't want to play him at all.

Finally someone up top said "what are we doing here" and then Sutter played him and they got his family in to see his first game but just to get back at his hand being forced, he developed that grouchy attitude that led to the dismissive press conference about Pelletier and maybe some other incidents.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Anyway, I've digressed, but that Pelletier thing always stood out to me as like... come on man, he obviously didn't mean it literally. He knows who the kid is, he's just trying to protect him for you guys writing crap every day about his progress (or lack of).

At minimum it was unnecessary. Instead of taking an opportunity to say something positive he went the other way. I think it was over blown but it was just such a missed opportunity and completely unnecessary.

[Red_Baron]

It is disappointing that he couldn't get with the times.


Hopefully Huska can keep the good parts of Sutter's system going but treat the players with the dignity that they have a right to while still keeping the players in check.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Hoop27

You'll have to forgive me if I wait to hear more than unnamed sources and a player that didn't have an issue with whatever allegedly happened before I even consider passing any sort of judgement let alone believing it.

That’s not how this works now. You immediately jump to all of the worst examples in your head that you can think of based on the limited information made available. Then you apply them all to this alleged situation as fact and get the snowball effect going of public pitchfork outrage to ruin a person’s reputation for all of history.

I can’t believe Sutter stabbed Weegar in the back with a knife while on the bench in the middle of a game. What kind of person does something like that and gets to continue coaching! He could have died. Disgusting.