2023/24 No Hope Flames Rumours & Speculation Thread

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I guess you missed the retention and rising cap portion.

Coleman at $3.5 million in 2025 is the same as Coleman at $2M back when he helped TB to a cup.

Except he's 32 years old with 4 years left on his deal now. And even of we assume the Flames will retain salary and hes willing to move, what do you even expect to get back?

Taylor Hall and Kevin Hayes are better players and returned nothing.

I don't see the point in paying him to play somewhere else.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Poe969

The Flames push for a playoff spot, trade away assets, don't make the playoffs, lose players as UFA'S, draft 15th again.

The "just make it 8n because anything can happen" mentality continues to keep the Flames in mediocrity.

You can practically set your watch to this.

Even if absolutely everything goes perfectly for the Flames they're early round fodder.

[Knut]

What the issue with Coleman ? 1 M overpaid is about it.

He is solid at both ends of the rink, is a great teammate and is an advocate for the Community even though he is from Texas.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Except he's 32 years old with 4 years left on his deal now. And even of we assume the Flames will retain salary and hes willing to move, what do you even expect to get back?

Taylor Hall and Kevin Hayes are better players and returned nothing.

I don't see the point in paying him to play somewhere else.

Neither are better than Coleman at what he provides. Hall is better at scoring and getting hurt. He was traded with zero retention as well.

Hayes - what does he do exactly? 15 more points than Coleman but he was on for a -22. Coleman was +9 playing against the best scorers on the opposition. Show me all those Hayes' rings, please?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Knut

What the issue with Coleman ? 1 M overpaid is about it.

He is solid at both ends of the rink, is a great teammate and is an advocate for the Community even though he is from Texas.

For a team that is cash-strapped and talent-poor, having $4.9M locked up for 18 goals from a 3rd line winger/good penalty killer isn't really a luxury that top teams can afford.

If you were to look at the most reason champions:

VGK:
Stephenson (C): 16 goals, 65 points, $2.75M
Carrier (W): 16 goals, 25 points, $1.4M
Amadio (W): 16 goals, 27 points, $726K
Roy (C): 14 goals, 30 points, $3M

COL:
Compher (C): 18 goals, 33 points, $3.5M
Newhook (C): 13 goals, 33 points, $908K
Nichushkin (W): 25 goals, 52 points, $2.5M

TBL (shortened 56 game season):
Coleman (W): 14 goals, 31 points, $1.8M
Joseph (W): 12 goals, 19 points, $737K

Top teams don't pay free agent rates for support players. That's the problem with Coleman. If you're spending that money on Coleman, you're not allocating enough money to the top of your roster (and we've seen this impact our team - Frolik impacting Tkachuk).

So yeah, Coleman by himself at $4.9M is just a typical free agent signing...but so long as this team pays free agents of that quality in that way, the team won't be able to accomplish anything more than they already are.

[GioforPM]

Stephenson was ridiculously underpaid. Plus he was their 1C for a good chunk of the season.

No one is talking 4.9 for Coleman. We're talking $1M+ retained in a cap that's going up by a fair bit over the enxt couple years. So pointing out a guy like Compher who's paid $3.5 for less points than Coleman, well fine.

[saillias]

Still hate the Toffoli trade. Not a great opening move by Conroy there. also didn't like him explaining to Rob Kerr how NJ actually wanted to give him less. You didn't have to trade him. Just because a guy pouts and asks for a trade you don't just give him away. Wpg waited a year for NY to pay their price for Trouba. Tre sat on a Bennett trade request for a year until Florida stepped up.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by saillias

Wpg waited a year for NY to pay their price for Trouba. Tre sat on a Bennett trade request for a year until Florida stepped up.

If Conroy had waited a year on Toffoli, he'd have lost him as a UFA.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Them Calgary Flames? Boy do they suck. I’m telling ya, they’re the suckiest bunch of sucks who have ever sucked…..am I doing this right?

[monkeyman]

I'd argue, BT waited too long. Florida knew Calgary was in a bad place with the impending expansion draft and used it to their advantage.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Them Calgary Flames? Boy do they suck. I’m telling ya, they’re the suckiest bunch of sucks who have ever sucked…..am I doing this right?

Thanked by Spurs. So yes. You're doing it right.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Neither are better than Coleman at what he provides. Hall is better at scoring and getting hurt. He was traded with zero retention as well.

Hayes - what does he do exactly? 15 more points than Coleman but he was on for a -22. Coleman was +9 playing against the best scorers on the opposition. Show me all those Hayes' rings, please?

I'm still waiting to hear about the haul you think we're getting for even a $4 million 3rd liner who still has 4 years left on his deal.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I'm still waiting to hear about the haul you think we're getting for even a $4 million 3rd liner who still has 4 years left on his deal.

Who said haul? They will use him, then he will get a fair return. Someone will want him. He hasn’t slowed yet, that’s for sure.

[Flames_Gimp]

still nothing cooking? damn.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Who said haul? They will use him, then he will get a fair return. Someone will want him. He hasn’t slowed yet, that’s for sure.

Fair return = mid round pick.

Might as well save the salary retention for some of these other bad contracts. At least Coleman is ONLY 4 more years.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s not hopeless, it’s just without hope… for now, which is different than hopeless because the absence of hope isn’t the same as hope being absent.

LOL, maybe this logic will provide a little bit more hope:

bool hasHope = false;

If((Hopeless != Without_Hope) ||
(Hopeless != No_Hope_In_Hell) ||
(Hopeless == Less_Hope) ||
(Hopeless == Maybe_Some_Hope))
hasHope = true;

return hasHope;

No need to ask ChatGPT for this answer.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Knut

What the issue with Coleman ? 1 M overpaid is about it.

He is solid at both ends of the rink, is a great teammate and is an advocate for the Community even though he is from Texas.

Only gripe is at that cap hit you'd ideally have a little more offensive output.

He's a net positive for the team though and makes them more competitive, not less.

He absolutely made the BOA at least a 4-2 series if not closer. That goal was robbed.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

If Conroy had waited a year on Toffoli, he'd have lost him as a UFA.

More than that, this place would have had a melt down if we didn't make a single trade before the draft.

[tvp2003]

I heard a rumor that hockey season is just around the corner:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1694061011723264086

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

For a team that is cash-strapped and talent-poor, having $4.9M locked up for 18 goals from a 3rd line winger/good penalty killer isn't really a luxury that top teams can afford.

If you were to look at the most reason champions:

VGK:
Stephenson (C): 16 goals, 65 points, $2.75M
Carrier (W): 16 goals, 25 points, $1.4M
Amadio (W): 16 goals, 27 points, $726K
Roy (C): 14 goals, 30 points, $3M

COL:
Compher (C): 18 goals, 33 points, $3.5M
Newhook (C): 13 goals, 33 points, $908K
Nichushkin (W): 25 goals, 52 points, $2.5M

TBL (shortened 56 game season):
Coleman (W): 14 goals, 31 points, $1.8M
Joseph (W): 12 goals, 19 points, $737K

Top teams don't pay free agent rates for support players. That's the problem with Coleman. If you're spending that money on Coleman, you're not allocating enough money to the top of your roster (and we've seen this impact our team - Frolik impacting Tkachuk).

So yeah, Coleman by himself at $4.9M is just a typical free agent signing...but so long as this team pays free agents of that quality in that way, the team won't be able to accomplish anything more than they already are.

You can also make a case than Coleman was better than Mangiapane last year for about $900k less. Mangiapane was an RFA too.

Lucic, Magiapane, Kadri, Vladar and Markstrom all had worse season and are probably more over paid than Coleman is.

I don't like expensive 3rd liners either, but Backlund and Coleman weren't the problem and are only slightly overpaid for 3rd liners. They probably were considered one of the best 3rd line combos in the league too.