Big Brother 2012! (warning: spoilers)

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by 4X4

This is only my third year of watching this show, so maybe my take is unrefined, but I was going for either Ian or Frank for the last month. Dan is just such a greasy SOB, I don't know how he expected to get any votes. His whole demeanor is that of a pushy knowitall, who lies and blows sunshine up your ass to trick you into doing what he wants. And the complete mind fu**ing he gave Danielle? The chick must have Stockholm Syndrome, as she was the only vote for Dan.
I don't know about you, but I hate people like Dan. But since this is a game, I guess I have to acknowledge that Dan did what he had to do to get as far as he can. He reminds me of the Canucks in many ways.

Who knows but I bet he's not like that outside the house. He appeared to just see it as a game and therefore he dropped all his boundaries. He's an extreme and in the end that cost him, however the other extreme is to assume the boundaries don't move at all. When people say, they tried to play a perfectly clean game you only hear that when they get voted out.

Moral of the story is lie a little bit, people will respect your game, but not a lot.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Parallex

He absolutely deserved to win. Yeah, yeah, Dan made two big splashy moves and was the best strategic player but his social game stunk (Jury Management is important yo) and he lost a step from his competition game in S10. I thought Ian made a very compelling case for why he deserved to win.

Ian won because too many jurors were sore losers and were shocked that they were lied to. I mean imagine the horror! They thought they were in the clear and had an alliance with Dan, but he LIED! It's so shocking that in a game where everyone lies and backstabs that Dan did though, what a jerk.

What moves did Ian make though? The only one I recall is voting out Boogie and then trying to get Frank out. Those were both pushed for by Dan, and the only reason that Ian didn't get taken out by Dan was his win in the last HOH. Otherwise he was just the last victim; nothing particularly noteworthy about that.

Instead the jury voted on two things. One was "woe is me, I thought we had a deal and Dan lied.". The other was surely a "lets have someone who has never won before and Ian has been watching since he was 10". It was almost like the kids make-a-wish come true.

All that being said, I like Ian. I just didn't want Joe or Jenn anywhere near the finals, and its disappointing they got as far as they did.

[albertGQ]

Ian won me $60 in our work BB pool!!!

[flamesfan55]

Originally Posted by Slava

Ian won because too many jurors were sore losers and were shocked that they were lied to. I mean imagine the horror! They thought they were in the clear and had an alliance with Dan, but he LIED! It's so shocking that in a game where everyone lies and backstabs that Dan did though, what a jerk.

What moves did Ian make though? The only one I recall is voting out Boogie and then trying to get Frank out. Those were both pushed for by Dan, and the only reason that Ian didn't get taken out by Dan was his win in the last HOH. Otherwise he was just the last victim; nothing particularly noteworthy about that.

Instead the jury voted on two things. One was "woe is me, I thought we had a deal and Dan lied.". The other was surely a "lets have someone who has never won before and Ian has been watching since he was 10". It was almost like the kids make-a-wish come true.

All that being said, I like Ian. I just didn't want Joe or Jenn anywhere near the finals, and its disappointing they got as far as they did.

Good post, you couldn't be more correct on that one. Ian saying that Dan wasted a HOH on joe yet Ian wasted one on Ashley. Ian did win when he had to when he was on the block he won the veto to keep himself safe. Other then that he pretty much just got told what to do. On top of the fact that putting up Frank wasn't really a big move cause everyone was putting him up.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Slava

Ian won because too many jurors were sore losers and were shocked that they were lied to. I mean imagine the horror! They thought they were in the clear and had an alliance with Dan, but he LIED! It's so shocking that in a game where everyone lies and backstabs that Dan did though, what a jerk.

What moves did Ian make though? The only one I recall is voting out Boogie and then trying to get Frank out. Those were both pushed for by Dan, and the only reason that Ian didn't get taken out by Dan was his win in the last HOH. Otherwise he was just the last victim; nothing particularly noteworthy about that.

Instead the jury voted on two things. One was "woe is me, I thought we had a deal and Dan lied.". The other was surely a "lets have someone who has never won before and Ian has been watching since he was 10". It was almost like the kids make-a-wish come true.

All that being said, I like Ian. I just didn't want Joe or Jenn anywhere near the finals, and its disappointing they got as far as they did.

Ian didn't have to make as many moves because he went on a crazy streak where he had immunity for 5 weeks from winning HOHs & vetos. It's funny how every year everyone brings up being a competitor, but Ian gets zero credit for it. Probably because he's not 6'1", 210 lbs.

Jury management is a very real thing and Dan was terrible at it (and I think he'd admit that). I'm sorry, but you can't swear on the bible to a fellow religious person like Frank and use his faith against him and not expect it to burn you down the road. Like it or not, in Frank's eyes that's a lot more than a normal lie/backstab and part of the game is understanding how far you can push the limits on people and Dan clearly failed at that. Then you add backstabbing Shane at a time where it was completely unnecessary and wasn't in any attempt to save himself and you can't honestly expect them to just let it slide a week later. You can't simply say - everyone lies and cheats so why should Dan be punished for it because part of the game is recognizing who you can lie and cheat to and not take heat for it.

Let's not forget that Dan got a 3 week bye in the game and got a loyal peon from being able to draft Danielle and establish that relationship without fear of being evicted - two major advantages Ian never got. That had a huge impact on the game as Dan would've been a huge target early in the game and it's doubtful he could've established the same relationship with Danielle if he wasn't given the mentor position immediately handed to him.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Slava

Ian won because too many jurors were sore losers and were shocked that they were lied to.

So? Lot's of seasons have had winners that did the same, but they managed to send or help send Jurers out the door willing to vote for them to win the money... that Dan wasn't able to do the same is on him. He did what he needed to do to get to the F2 but not to win. I think that if he'd gotten his wish of an all goat F4 (F4 of him/Dani/Jenn/Joe) he'd have won but he ended up in the F2 with Ian whose anything but a goat. Yes he lost to a bitter jury, but the way I see it part of the winners responsibility is to ensure that the jury isn't so bitter that they won't vote him or her to win.

I mean what really did Dan do? He convinced Jenn & Danielle to use the veto on him (And what resulted from the Danielle veto ultimately backfired on him) and he made F2/F3/F4 deals with everyone but Joe. That's not all that impressive when you get right down to it, he just did it in a flashy way that makes it look more impressive then it actually was.

I give him full credit for entertainment value, he made the season as entertaining as it was... but the right person won.

I maintain my opinion that if I were to compare Ian's game with any prior player it'd actually probably be Dan from S10.

[woob]

Well said, JayP. I think Dan proved that you can only play so dirty before people will shut you down and not respect your game. He only got one vote last night and that was it. Even Jenn, who was probably with Dan right up until the last few minutes before voting, appeared to have switched at the end.

All in all, glad Ian won and would love to see Frank and Ian come back in a future season.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by woob

Even Jenn, who was probably with Dan right up until the last few minutes before voting, appeared to have switched at the end.

All in all, glad Ian won and would love to see Frank and Ian come back in a future season.

Yeah, but Jenn basically voted out of Newbie solidarity (didn't want a prior winner to win again) not any animosity towards Dan.

I do want to see Frank and Ian back again but I really want them to stop mixing new and old players. Just do All-Stars II and then get back to basics with all newbie casts for a while.

[Stay Golden]

I was happy Ian won the show in a landslide and Frank won the favorite player.
Dan was really getting under my skin how Ian and Danielle were throwing comps for him. Little weasel.
I am glad it back fired in the end on him.
Ian's parents are going to have to rope that kid in with his new fortune. He is likely to blow it all within a year. I could see him buying all sorts of sci fi movie props etc.
I hope next BB they cast a more lively vibrant bunch with no former BB alumni.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yeah, but Jenn basically voted out of Newbie solidarity (didn't want a prior winner to win again) not any animosity towards Dan.

I wouldn't buy too much into that. I'm sure it had an effect, but remember it was a quick 2 minute interview in the midst of all the hoopla when she said it. It's a lot easier to just say something generic like that then try and lay out your entire argument in a quick interview like that.

[d_phaneuf]

I hope next season is either all newbies or just go full all stars

the mixing can take a break for a few seasons

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Ian's parents are going to have to rope that kid in with his new fortune. He is likely to blow it all within a year. I could see him buying all sorts of sci fi movie props etc

I think on the show he said that he's going to use it to pay for the rest of his schooling and student loans (Tulane is a very expensive school). Of course it's easy to say that and then go blow it but Ian doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that has luxery wants.

[Machiavelli]

Ian really irritated me in the final show, always talking over people.

I think they both would be deserving of the win.

[HelloHockeyFans]

Boy did Danielle ever look craaaazy sitting in the jury.

[albertGQ]

I wish they had a post show like Survivor. I know BB has done something like that in the past before. I wonder why they didn’t do that this season. I woudl’ve been perfect to see all of Dan’s DR sessions & the HG’s reactions.

[sevenarms]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

Boy did Danielle ever look craaaazy sitting in the jury.

I loved when Julie asked Janelle what she was most surprised to learn after going home and she said "Danielle's lies."

[flamesfan55]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Ian really irritated me in the final show, always talking over people.

I think they both would be deserving of the win.

That bothered the crap out of me, dan was talking and Ian just kept say bull bull bull bull (dude needed to stfu) They were both there because they deserved it both for different reasons. Anyone that says Dan didn't deserve to be there is quite stupid. He played a very good social game (probably shouldn't have sworn on everything he owns) but still very good. Ian won based on comps.

[albertGQ]

I read online that Janelle called out Danielle for all her lies on the finale last night. I must've missed it or CBS must've edited that part out??? Anyone catch that?

Supposedly Janelle, Jodi & Jo Jo all wanted to call her out on her lies but CBS told them they weren't allowed to & they were only allowed to comment on what were shown in the episodes

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

I read online that Janelle called out Danielle for all her lies on the finale last night. I must've missed it or CBS must've edited that part out??? Anyone catch that?

Supposedly Janelle, Jodi & Jo Jo all wanted to call her out on her lies but CBS told them they weren't allowed to & they were only allowed to comment on what were shown in the episodes

Did you watch the West Coast feed? Maybe they edited it out?

I don't get why BB protected Danielle so much this season. They really could have gone to town on her.

[albertGQ]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Did you watch the West Coast feed? Maybe they edited it out?

I don't get why BB protected Danielle so much this season. They really could have gone to town on her.

I'm not sure what feed I watched. I didn't get home from hockey till 10pm so I just watched whatever feed was on my PVR