Brad Treliving needs to go

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by blender

Hurricanes just got shelled by the Blue Jackets.
I wonder what their board reads like?

I don’t know, I think there is a difference when you sit 1st and lose a game because you take a night off versus struggling for 10 games trying to hold on to a playoff spot.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by blender

Hurricanes just got shelled by the Blue Jackets.
I wonder what their board reads like?

They're the top team in the league, and they've had a few seasons in a row of optimistic success.

Not really comparable to a very frustrated fanbase of multiple decades, with lots of a things up in the air.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think Brouwer was a carless signing too. I got it ... he fit the bill for a lot of what they were looking for, but a quick look into his underlying stats showed he was getting filled in with Washington and didn't have the counting stats to make the signing worthwhile.

Seems like we see this in Canadian markets ... teams trying to get someone to sign so they overlook the warts.

The Oilers with the Cecis etc, Vancouver with some of their blueline signings in recent years, Calgary with Brouwer and Neal.

The questions this raises, which I think you've brought up in the past include:
- is the team leveraging advanced stats but ignoring and to what degree?
- how is that applied to decision making including relative to the views of pro scouts
- are there/have there been voices or information provided against some of these moves (e.g. the Brouwer and Neal signings) and were they simply ignored?

Basically is the decision making flawed, or are the inputs into those decisions flawed.

Hard to tell.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

You are correct that there are lots of games left and plenty of chances to win

The reaction is due to the performance in the last 10 games or so

For god sake what contender loses to Ottawa? Reminder of last year

They beat the Panthers and Lightning back to back in December.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

You are correct that there are lots of games left and plenty of chances to win

The reaction is due to the performance in the last 10 games or so

For god sake what contender loses to Ottawa? Reminder of last year

This was last month

Also, the Flames being 1-1 vs. the Sens this season isn't going to make or break their season

[TheoFleury]

Brad is really no better than Jim Benning

The most amazing thing about him is that he is still here

I'm just assuming he possesses compromising pictures of Edwards. Or maybe... just maybe ownership is the biggest problem here

It's really no better than Vancouver or Edmonton IMO

Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Brad is really no better than Jim Benning

The most amazing thing about him is that he is still here

I'm just assuming he possesses compromising pictures of Edwards. Or maybe... just maybe ownership is the biggest problem here

It's really no better than Vancouver or Edmonton IMO

Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk

It maybe helps having a father who is an incredibly successful businessman and respected in the community. Maybe Edwards or others don't want to strain their relationship with Jim by firing Brad. Who knows.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I see it too, and I do agree with what you guys are saying. Some on here have a negative outlook but there are those that say things like "Johnny is going to walk for sure" and there's no guarantee he will or won't. You can't say for certain what will or won't happen, say what you think but be open to opinions different than yours.

I do think the general feel in here is negative but personally, I think that's because of what's going on in the world. I know I've been more negative in general because of what's going on and for that, I apologize. I'm sure a lot of others are in the same boat.

It's a tough time and a lot of us turn to sports, we all want the Flames to win and the fact that they're not is upsetting. On ice they're not doing what we want and when they're not doing what we want management wise, it just feels like another loss. With so few games being played with so long between games, it makes us even more frustrated. It's like being told "hurry up and wait".

Again, I apologize for being overly negative but I want to thank everyone for the site and (most of) the content. CP is a great escape from the world.

Treliving has not gotten results. Furthermore, he has demonstrated a lack of judgement in terms of hockey ability. His capacity to judge the inherent quality of a player seems to be marginally above that of a fan, and perhaps that's generous.

Don't even get me started on his assessment of coaches and his ability to hire there.

I think Tre would probably make a good assistant GM, handling a lot of the negotiations and business side with someone who knows that they are doing assessing talent levels and future potential.

[timbit]

Perhaps, there is need for a better acronym.

Instead of IMO, IM(EU)O could be suitably employed.( extremely uneducated).

Just a thought.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I don’t know, I think there is a difference when you sit 1st and lose a game because you take a night off versus struggling for 10 games trying to hold on to a playoff spot.

Why do you still sound like an oiler fan?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by TOfan

The Hamonic trade didn’t work out as planned, clearly. But I don’t think it was misguided in its attempt to improve the team. At the time Hamonic was a 27 year old top 4 RHS D with three years left on his deal at a reasonable cap hit. A 1st and two 2Nds was a lot to give up but the reported offer from the leafs was a 1St and JVR who at the time had one year left on his deal. One year of JVR seems to check out as it relates to the value of two 2nds in my mind.

What this was intended to do was to give the Flames a top 4 of Gio-Hamilton-Brodie-Hamonic. I don’t think it was a bad bet at the time to think that should have been an upper tier top 4 in the league. It should have been better. Unfortunately Flames fans are used to this; Regher-Phaneuf-Bouwmeester.

Bare in mind The Flames were likely anticipating a step forward from Bennett Tkachuk among others.

It’s curious reading comments by many here deriding Treliving for not making a move to help the team, even if it mean’s overpaying, now. They seem to be the same ones who are pointing to previous moves as the reason why he should be fired.

I think Treliving’s job is very much on the line this year. Last year I didn’t see any way the Flamrs were going to fire him with term left on his deal and the pandemic obviously effecting operating costs.

It’s not so much Treliving’s will or desire that’s been questionable, I don’t think anyone can say he hasn’t tried or worked hard at improving the team. But it was his strategy, his talent evaluation and his master plan that has him on the ropes right now.

This team was never a goaltender or a defenseman away from contending. But that didn’t stop them from emptying the clip attempting to acquire short term/stop gap solutions. If anything, this season has all but proven that the forward depth and center ice position is and has always been this team’s biggest issue.

They may have tried to address the lack of depth with expensive complimentary forwards like Brouwer, Frolik, Neal and etc. But when you rush to retool and you don’t build a strong core through the draft, then this is what happens, your foundation crumbles. Management has tried some repair work and patch jobs here and there, but it’s amounted to the equivalent of slapping lipstick on a pig.

I don’t know if Treliving has a rabbit he can pull out of that hat of his, but the Western conference is insanely competitive this season and each and every loss will be magnified. So I imagine this thread could be very active from here on out.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The questions this raises, which I think you've brought up in the past include:
- is the team leveraging advanced stats but ignoring and to what degree?
- how is that applied to decision making including relative to the views of pro scouts
- are there/have there been voices or information provided against some of these moves (e.g. the Brouwer and Neal signings) and were they simply ignored?

Basically is the decision making flawed, or are the inputs into those decisions flawed.

Hard to tell.

I wonder if one of the initial concepts after an intense coach like Hartley was molding the team with certain characteristics. They brought in a completely different coach in Glen Gulutzan. A nice guy who seemed to have a lot of worthwhile concepts and ideas. You have Lazar also being a nice guy and probably very convincing in person on how much he wanted to contribute. same with Brouwer, Neal also was good at talking the talk. These could have been mitigating factors on why those players were considered. If players were not happy under Hartley I could see management going through season-end meetings and looking for ways to create a more positive work environment. I am not implying this was the approach, just trying to factor in why we seemed to grab some players, coaches who appeared to be good but came up short. Other than that maybe a management group just not diligently doing their homework.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The questions this raises, which I think you've brought up in the past include:
- is the team leveraging advanced stats but ignoring and to what degree?
- how is that applied to decision making including relative to the views of pro scouts
- are there/have there been voices or information provided against some of these moves (e.g. the Brouwer and Neal signings) and were they simply ignored?

Basically is the decision making flawed, or are the inputs into those decisions flawed.

Hard to tell.

I’d say that it’s likely the organization saw some of the flaws with Brouwer and Neal among others but just based on track record, they seem to really value the “zero acquisition cost” of UFa’s. And so they lower the bar and in some cases, the risks played out to an extreme.

Maybe.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I’d say that it’s likely the organization saw some of the flaws with Brouwer and Neal among others but just based on track record, they seem to really value the “zero acquisition cost” of UFa’s. And so they lower the bar and in some cases, the risks played out to an extreme.

Maybe.

It seems like the Flames only use a few tools in the toolbox. They seem to really value the no cost piece of UFA. They really seem to reject moves like using cap space to get assets. It is hard to see them ever using cap space to acquire a guy like Patrick Marleau and also get a Seth Jarvis as a side benefit.

The side cost to that approach is the contract situations with guys like Eat Bread. The Flames never could sign him to a long term deal 3 years ago because their excursions into the UFA market prevented them from having the space.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

It’s not so much Treliving’s will or desire that’s been questionable, I don’t think anyone can say he hasn’t tried or worked hard at improving the team. But it was his strategy, his talent evaluation and his master plan that has him on the ropes right now.

This team was never a goaltender or a defenseman away from contending. But that didn’t stop them from emptying the clip attempting to acquire short term/stop gap solutions. If anything, this season has all but proven that the forward depth and center ice position is and has always been this team’s biggest issue.

They may have tried to address the lack of depth with expensive complimentary forwards like Brouwer, Frolik, Neal and etc. But when you rush to retool and you don’t build a strong core through the draft, then this is what happens, your foundation crumbles. Management has tried some repair work and patch jobs here and there, but it’s amounted to the equivalent of slapping lipstick on a pig.

I don’t know if Treliving has a rabbit he can pull out of that hat of his, but the Western conference is insanely competitive this season and each and every loss will be magnified. So I imagine this thread could be very active from here on out.

Completely reasonable take.

I argued last offseason that Treliving wasn’t going to get fired. It didn’t make sense and, I thought, he was going to get this year to correct course. With the uncertainty around the pandemic and term left on his deal I also thought it highly unlikely the Flames were going to fire him at that point. I had the opportunity to spend some time with an established scout this past summer and asked him about it and he said Treliving has a good relationship with the owners but sometimes a change is needed. I think we are get close to that now.

This year is different. Treliving only has one year left on his deal. If the Flames miss the playoffs, I don’t see how they keep him. If they lose in round one, I don’t think it would be a surprise to see him fired. It might even be likely. Really, the only way I think it’s assured he’s back is if the make it to the conference finals. I think Treliving knows this and I believe he said with Stienberg that he intends to add to the team. So, I think he’s prepared to put some chips on the table, I’m not sure if he has another option, really.

The arguments that make sense for Treliving’s dismissal are the ones stating the results speak for themselves after 7 years. That’s hard to argue. But there is a whole lot of made up scenarios, revisionist history, and straight up inaccuracies that are being presented here that equates to an angry mob yelling ‘they took our jobs!’ It’s actually hard to read some of this ‘logic’.

On another note, I found it interesting that Mike Futa was back on Sportsnet. Wasn’t he hired by the Hurricanes last offseason

[FlameyMcFlameFace]

Brad needs to go. When we lose Johnny, not if, when we do it will be one of the biggest blunders in Calgary Flames history. That he was able to walk for free. Hurts more because in this very forum we were all talking about how we need to either resign him or trade him for maximum value.

Nevermind all the other mistakes, this one right here will be the cherry on top when he walks for free and some of you will be saying “I knew we should have fired brad way before”.


But who knows, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe we trade him last min at the deadline for at least something. But as a long time flames fan, I’m expecting to be hurt when he walks free.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

It seems like the Flames only use a few tools in the toolbox. They seem to really value the no cost piece of UFA. They really seem to reject moves like using cap space to get assets. It is hard to see them ever using cap space to acquire a guy like Patrick Marleau and also get a Seth Jarvis as a side benefit.

The side cost to that approach is the contract situations with guys like Eat Bread. The Flames never could sign him to a long term deal 3 years ago because their excursions into the UFA market prevented them from having the space.

I believe Burke said the Flames were willing to take on salary at the low point of their rebuild. It doesn’t seem like that ever materialized.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by FlameyMcFlameFace

Brad needs to go. When we lose Johnny, not if, when we do it will be one of the biggest blunders in Calgary Flames history. That he was able to walk for free. Hurts more because in this very forum we were all talking about how we need to either resign him or trade him for maximum value.

Nevermind all the other mistakes, this one right here will be the cherry on top when he walks for free and some of you will be saying “I knew we should have fired brad way before”.


But who knows, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe we trade him last min at the deadline for at least something. But as a long time flames fan, I’m expecting to be hurt when he walks free.

I wonder if Islanders fans said the same about Lou when Tavares walked. What about Armstrong in St. Louis and Pietroangelo?

Going to be a long 4-5 months reading ‘Treliving should be fired immediately if Gaudreau walks’. I would imagine this gets posted at least ten times a day from here on out.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Completely reasonable take.

I argued last offseason that Treliving wasn’t going to get fired. It didn’t make sense and, I thought, he was going to get this year to correct course. With the uncertainty around the pandemic and term left on his deal I also thought it highly unlikely the Flames were going to fire him at that point. I had the opportunity to spend some time with an established scout this past summer and asked him about it and he said Treliving has a good relationship with the owners but sometimes a change is needed. I think we are get close to that now.

This year is different. Treliving only has one year left on his deal. If the Flames miss the playoffs, I don’t see how they keep him. If they lose in round one, I don’t think it would be a surprise to see him fired. It might even be likely. Really, the only way I think it’s assured he’s back is if the make it to the conference finals. I think Treliving knows this and I believe he said with Stienberg that he intends to add to the team. So, I think he’s prepared to put some chips on the table, I’m not sure if he has another option, really.

The arguments that make sense for Treliving’s dismissal are the ones stating the results speak for themselves after 7 years. That’s hard to argue. But there is a whole lot of made up scenarios, revisionist history, and straight up inaccuracies that are being presented here that equates to an angry mob yelling ‘they took our jobs!’ It’s actually hard to read some of this ‘logic’.

On another note, I found it interesting that Mike Futa was back on Sportsnet. Wasn’t he hired by the Hurricanes last offseason

Wow - I know we haven't agreed in the past because we have completely opposite views. I am not saying you agree with my views on Treliving but for you to be uncertain this way - that is saying a lot.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The questions this raises, which I think you've brought up in the past include:
- is the team leveraging advanced stats but ignoring and to what degree?
- how is that applied to decision making including relative to the views of pro scouts
- are there/have there been voices or information provided against some of these moves (e.g. the Brouwer and Neal signings) and were they simply ignored?

Basically is the decision making flawed, or are the inputs into those decisions flawed.

Hard to tell.

I think one of the issues with advanced stats is that while they do measure quality of competition, they don't necessarily or accurately have a stat that shows fit.


Look at a guy like Colin Miller, who looked fantastic in Vegas, and then he goes to Buffalo, and he struggles. Yes, he struggled because Buffalo i s weaker team than Vega, and he's being asked to do more, but I think another huge part of it is fit, or style.


A guy mght have great underlying stats, but then he switches teams, and that drops off. So you have to figure out is it the room? Line-mates and teammates? Fit in the community? Or are there other factors at play?


I mean, you can only make decisions based on the info you have, and the info you can quantify in your own head. But you're not always going to be right.


This has been going on for your years. I seem to recall when Keenan went to St Louis, everyone assumed he would love Shanahan and fight with Hull, and it turned out the other way around.