Brad Treliving needs to go

[heep223]

Treliving hasn’t given us results yet but if you want to see what constant cycling through upper management gets you look north. His FA signings have mostly been bad but drafting and trades have been good for the most part.

Unpopular opinion probably but I feel like this team is close. Add a 2nd line forward and a 2nd pairing d-man at the deadline if possible. They are cup contenders if so.

[nik-]

It's been almost 8 years. Pretty far from "constant cycling"

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by heep223

Treliving hasn’t given us results yet but if you want to see what constant cycling through upper management gets you look north. His FA signings have mostly been bad but drafting and trades have been good for the most part.

Unpopular opinion probably but I feel like this team is close. Add a 2nd line forward and a 2nd pairing d-man at the deadline if possible. They are cup contenders if so.

You don’t get any credit because you are better than the Oilers lol
That’s comparing to the worst loser

Easy to say but how do you get that 2nd line forward or dman? Treliving hasn’t been able to do it.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Bingo

There is a lot of real estate between drinking the koolaid and taking a delicious satisfaction in predicting the absolute worst case scenario in pretty much any topic that surrounds the team.

I'm not sure who you're referring to but it seems like if anyone doesn't agree with you(not you specifically) that this team is great or like the direction (or lack there of) this team is headed, you are a negative Nancy.

Just look at their history just look at recent results. Look at stats and contracts. Read the article Scorp just wrote(thanks buddy, keep up the great work). This team is in a bad place right now, actually they were in a bad place a few years ago and it steadily got worse. It's not all the players fault, it's not all the GM's fault, and it's not all the owners fault.its everyone's fault, there's enough to go around. Fact is the team is falling in to the same pattern they have in the past, they look great then face some adversity and fold. The team doesn't have enough firepower and like years before, they've missed their chance to acquire high end help...but they tried! If the team is remotely close to the playoffs, they'll go for it because their mandate has always been "just make it in because anything can happen". Now is it more realistic to say, this team just needs to get in and they an do some damage...even though they've can't get it done during the regular season, and most teams Amp up their play for the playoffs.

The team is what it is, they're following the same pattern they have for a few years. it's not pessimistic to recognize the same pattern. It's more unrealistic to say this team is a contender or they're 1 or 2 pieces away.

However you spill it, we're all fans and we're not all going to agree. We all want the same thing, the Flames to win the cup, some think they can this year and want to go for it, some don't think they can this year and want the team to go the other direction.

We're all supposed to be able to express our opinions here and none of us are wrong, so please don't call someone out for not agreeing with you or say they don't enjoy life or aren't fun at parties because they think differently than you( and again, this is to everyone not you specifically). So many people use labels like "haters, doubters, or downers" can we just get rid of them because people like those as much as others like being told they're drinking the Koolaid.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Yeah, after the trade Adams said he wanted Krebs badly, what's he supposed to say? that's all Vegas had?

Aside from playing center ice Peyton Krebs is not any better than Pelletier, If I'm wrong please show me some kind of a metric that proves it

I would guarantee if Pelletier was called up and gifted 2nd line minutes he would have more than 2 secondary assists in 14 games and wouldn't be a -10 in those games. Peyton Krebs is quickly becoming the most overrated prospect since Rob Schremp.

If Adams would turn down Lindholm, Valimaki, Pelletier over Krebs and Tuch he would be fired on the spot.

Krebs is consistently ranked higher on any lists for what those are worth
But ultimately it only matters who Buffalo wanted. And Krebs was identified as a target for months. Pelletier was never mentioned

Remember they also got a 1st and conditional second
You have this sense that the deal was easy to beat but the underlying assumption that you are making is that they liked those players
I would strongly suggest they simply didn’t. At least as much as the ones Vegas had. Now perhaps Lindholm changes that but then the deal doesn’t make sense for Calgary

Moreover we didn't just hear about how much Buffalo liked Krebs AFTER the trade. That was out there for months. And this isn't a told you so thing, but nor is it revisionist history on my part. If you go back in the Eichel threads I was saying for months in advance that if Vegas was willing to put Krebs on the table they would probably get Eichel. And that happened. So this isn't some 20/20 hindsight from me. it was clear to me that Krebs was a target, and considered the best prospect that might be offered by the teams involved, unless Anaheim was willing to put Zegras on the table. And why would they?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Yeah, after the trade Adams said he wanted Krebs badly, what's he supposed to say? that's all Vegas had?

Aside from playing center ice Peyton Krebs is not any better than Pelletier, If I'm wrong please show me some kind of a metric that proves it

I would guarantee if Pelletier was called up and gifted 2nd line minutes he would have more than 2 secondary assists in 14 games and wouldn't be a -10 in those games. Peyton Krebs is quickly becoming the most overrated prospect since Rob Schremp.

If Adams would turn down Lindholm, Valimaki, Pelletier over Krebs and Tuch he would be fired on the spot.

Well done. One of the more poorly thought out posts in this thread and that is saying something.

Your guarantee means nothing, because you’re not in a position to do so. Why would Adams lie about wanting Krebs? Pretty much every hockey insider said Krebs was high on BUF’s list. Not once did I see Pelletier mentioned. Apparently you know more though.

You’re making guarantees and stating things as fact but truth is, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Then you top it off with an ‘he should be fired on the spot’ blast. Hilarious.

[Iggy Snipe]

The Flames have lost 4 games in a row. Its not the end of the world.

They are WAY better than last year, and are going to be challenging to be a playoff team.

Isn't this what we want?

Lets remember the entire team has had COVID and played 1 home game in the past MONTH.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I'm not sure who you're referring to but it seems like if anyone doesn't agree with you(not you specifically) that this team is great or like the direction (or lack there of) this team is headed, you are a negative Nancy.

Just look at their history just look at recent results. Look at stats and contracts. Read the article Scorp just wrote(thanks buddy, keep up the great work). This team is in a bad place right now, actually they were in a bad place a few years ago and it steadily got worse. It's not all the players fault, it's not all the GM's fault, and it's not all the owners fault.its everyone's fault, there's enough to go around. Fact is the team is falling in to the same pattern they have in the past, they look great then face some adversity and fold. The team doesn't have enough firepower and like years before, they've missed their chance to acquire high end help...but they tried! If the team is remotely close to the playoffs, they'll go for it because their mandate has always been "just make it in because anything can happen". Now is it more realistic to say, this team just needs to get in and they an do some damage...even though they've can't get it done during the regular season, and most teams Amp up their play for the playoffs.

The team is what it is, they're following the same pattern they have for a few years. it's not pessimistic to recognize the same pattern. It's more unrealistic to say this team is a contender or they're 1 or 2 pieces away.

However you spill it, we're all fans and we're not all going to agree. We all want the same thing, the Flames to win the cup, some think they can this year and want to go for it, some don't think they can this year and want the team to go the other direction.

We're all supposed to be able to express our opinions here and none of us are wrong, so please don't call someone out for not agreeing with you or say they don't enjoy life or aren't fun at parties because they think differently than you( and again, this is to everyone not you specifically). So many people use labels like "haters, doubters, or downers" can we just get rid of them because people like those as much as others like being told they're drinking the Koolaid.

First off I'm not stopping anyone from having an opinion, either like mine or different.

I do call out labeling an opposing opinion, and I do see a difference between calling someone delusional or a kool-aid drinker (they both assert a person is wrong and biased), compared to pointing out a person has to lean to the worst case scenario more often than not.

And personally I haven't said the team is great, and I certainly don't need others to think they're going in the right direction or some sort of perfect organization. I've said I don't like the core. I've suggested that I almost hope they slip so they can move on from the core with deadline trades and start over.

But when someone just posts it's over, that Gaudreau is going to walk, then it will be walk to free agency deals for Tkachuk and Mangiapane ... letting them walk for zip you clearly have a person that wants to spread doom because it's not even logical. It's just dragging people down. Why wouldn't I push back on that?

Not a fan of people that lie in the weeds for a slump and then walk out the tired everything is going to hell BS. But I'm certainly not banning anyone for doing it. I'm just not going to make it easy for that person to navigate that slop.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The Neal signing was obviously bad, but the mistake there is the continual reliance on expensive veteran UFA’s.

The Hamonic trade wasn’t just a player not panning out. It was a weird mistake on multiple levels, overvaluing the player, misunderstanding the teams biggest needs and undervaluing the compensation you gave up.

But in the end the mistakes don’t define this GM, it’s the sum of the parts of what he has built with the time he has been given and the relatively clean slate he had to start with. Eight years later, we should at least be able to agree on what the plan has been.

That said, I still have some hope he can get some forward depth in here and the team goes on a little run.

The Hamonic trade didn’t work out as planned, clearly. But I don’t think it was misguided in its attempt to improve the team. At the time Hamonic was a 27 year old top 4 RHS D with three years left on his deal at a reasonable cap hit. A 1st and two 2Nds was a lot to give up but the reported offer from the leafs was a 1St and JVR who at the time had one year left on his deal. One year of JVR seems to check out as it relates to the value of two 2nds in my mind.

What this was intended to do was to give the Flames a top 4 of Gio-Hamilton-Brodie-Hamonic. I don’t think it was a bad bet at the time to think that should have been an upper tier top 4 in the league. It should have been better. Unfortunately Flames fans are used to this; Regher-Phaneuf-Bouwmeester.

Bare in mind The Flames were likely anticipating a step forward from Bennett Tkachuk among others.

It’s curious reading comments by many here deriding Treliving for not making a move to help the team, even if it mean’s overpaying, now. They seem to be the same ones who are pointing to previous moves as the reason why he should be fired.

I think Treliving’s job is very much on the line this year. Last year I didn’t see any way the Flamrs were going to fire him with term left on his deal and the pandemic obviously effecting operating costs.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by TOfan

The Hamonic trade didn’t work out as planned, clearly. But I don’t think it was misguided in its attempt to improve the team. At the time Hamonic was a 27 year old top 4 RHS D with three years left on his deal at a reasonable cap hit. A 1st and two 2Nds was a lot to give up but the reported offer from the leafs was a 1St and JVR who at the time had one year left on his deal. One year of JVR seems to check out as it relates to the value of two 2nds in my mind.

What this was intended to do was to give the Flames a top 4 of Gio-Hamilton-Brodie-Hamonic. I don’t think it was a bad bet at the time to think that should have been an upper tier top 4 in the league. It should have been better. Unfortunately Flames fans are used to this; Regher-Phaneuf-Bouwmeester.

Bare in mind The Flames were likely anticipating a step forward from Bennett Tkachuk among others.

It’s curious reading comments by many here deriding Treliving for not making a move to help the team, even if it mean’s overpaying, now. They seem to be the same ones who are pointing to previous moves as the reason why he should be fired.

I think Treliving’s job is very much on the line this year. Last year I didn’t see any way the Flamrs were going to fire him with term left on his deal and the pandemic obviously effecting operating costs.

Harmonic had one great year for the Islanders. He was very average the year after that. There were plenty of discussion of his performance but it was shadowed by his nice guy image. Isles fans love him for his image than his plays.
It’s ok for a fan to miss that but for a professional team to misjudged him is a disaster. It’s a big screw up by Treliving, it’s not even debatable.

Also the complains about his inactivity is for the last few years after the Hamonic trade. Don’t point to his trades before that.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by TOfan

The Hamonic trade didn’t work out as planned, clearly. But I don’t think it was misguided in its attempt to improve the team. At the time Hamonic was a 27 year old top 4 RHS D with three years left on his deal at a reasonable cap hit. A 1st and two 2Nds was a lot to give up but the reported offer from the leafs was a 1St and JVR who at the time had one year left on his deal. One year of JVR seems to check out as it relates to the value of two 2nds in my mind.

What this was intended to do was to give the Flames a top 4 of Gio-Hamilton-Brodie-Hamonic. I don’t think it was a bad bet at the time to think that should have been an upper tier top 4 in the league. It should have been better. Unfortunately Flames fans are used to this; Regher-Phaneuf-Bouwmeester.

Bare in mind The Flames were likely anticipating a step forward from Bennett Tkachuk among others.

It’s curious reading comments by many here deriding Treliving for not making a move to help the team, even if it mean’s overpaying, now. They seem to be the same ones who are pointing to previous moves as the reason why he should be fired.

I think Treliving’s job is very much on the line this year. Last year I didn’t see any way the Flamrs were going to fire him with term left on his deal and the pandemic obviously effecting operating costs.

I hated this deal at the time because it seemed like a lot to give up for a player who would be our 4th D and offered no offensive upside or helped our transition game.

Flames at the time were built as a small, fast, transition team. Now I guess they looked and said "We need the next Regehr" since we were missing that role, but this is what it seems BT is always doing. Trying to improve our weakness instead of building on our strength (And at great asset cost)

It was another example of BT trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Also, I feel he really got into a bidding war as he was very concerned about Vancouver or the Oilers getting Hamonic. This also seems to be a trend for BT.

Why he is at all worried about those two teams is beyond me. The best strategy would be to run the other direction whenever they showed interest in a player

[blender]

It seems like this whole site is a train wreck right now. Every thread is a pissing match about how bad the Flames are, and the craziest part is the anti-Flames crowd seem to be the loudest voices and are the most upset with the group that is attempting to maintain some level of tempered positivity.

I can't think of a single poster here who is blindly optimistic or has an unrealistic view of the Flames. But that isn't good enough for the antifans. Any level of positivity is instantly attacked. The past 30 years has been terrible, the current season is swirling in the bowl, the future is bleak. It gets repeated constantly, as if the antifans just feel like no one is listening to them.

This place hasn't always been this way. When I first came here the Flames were worse than now, but the mood here was miles better.

I feel like we are following a trend in social media, where things just seem to be sliding into toxicity.

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems like a discouraging place to spend time.

[Poe969]

I see it too, and I do agree with what you guys are saying. Some on here have a negative outlook but there are those that say things like "Johnny is going to walk for sure" and there's no guarantee he will or won't. You can't say for certain what will or won't happen, say what you think but be open to opinions different than yours.

I do think the general feel in here is negative but personally, I think that's because of what's going on in the world. I know I've been more negative in general because of what's going on and for that, I apologize. I'm sure a lot of others are in the same boat.

It's a tough time and a lot of us turn to sports, we all want the Flames to win and the fact that they're not is upsetting. On ice they're not doing what we want and when they're not doing what we want management wise, it just feels like another loss. With so few games being played with so long between games, it makes us even more frustrated. It's like being told "hurry up and wait".

Again, I apologize for being overly negative but I want to thank everyone for the site and (most of) the content. CP is a great escape from the world.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The Neal signing was obviously bad, but the mistake there is the continual reliance on expensive veteran UFA’s.

The Hamonic trade wasn’t just a player not panning out. It was a weird mistake on multiple levels, overvaluing the player, misunderstanding the teams biggest needs and undervaluing the compensation you gave up.

But in the end the mistakes don’t define this GM, it’s the sum of the parts of what he has built with the time he has been given and the relatively clean slate he had to start with. Eight years later, we should at least be able to agree on what the plan has been.

That said, I still have some hope he can get some forward depth in here and the team goes on a little run.

I agree that 8 years of lack of success is the deciding factor, which is why I voted way back (at 7 years in fact) that he should be replaced.

The Hamonic decision was the player not being the right one. The team need was absolutely correct. They needed a top 4 D to play with Gio/Hamilton/Brodie. If Hamonic had played like Tanev has, that decision would have been just fine. The compensation wasn’t bad for the spot needed - it was bad for the player that turned out.

Just like the need for a top 4 scoring RW was recognized, but the personnel decision was way off. And even then. Based purely on scoring history, it was hard to second guess. It’s only when you look deeper at Neal that it was an issue.

[dino7c]

Some people don't seem to grasp the situation either

34 games played, 12 home games....2nd in the division

Not even half way done, people act like it's game 78 and the Flames are out of a spot.

Play even with a couple of Anaheim, Edmonton, SJ, LA and you are easily in

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree that 8 years of lack of success is the deciding factor, which is why I voted way back (at 7 years in fact) that he should be replaced.

The Hamonic decision was the player not being the right one. The team need was absolutely correct. They needed a top 4 D to play with Gio/Hamilton/Brodie. If Hamonic had played like Tanev has, that decision would have been just fine. The compensation wasn’t bad for the spot needed - it was bad for the player that turned out.

Just like the need for a top 4 scoring RW was recognized, but the personnel decision was way off. And even then. Based purely on scoring history, it was hard to second guess. It’s only when you look deeper at Neal that it was an issue.

I think Brouwer was a carless signing too. I got it ... he fit the bill for a lot of what they were looking for, but a quick look into his underlying stats showed he was getting filled in with Washington and didn't have the counting stats to make the signing worthwhile.

Seems like we see this in Canadian markets ... teams trying to get someone to sign so they overlook the warts.

The Oilers with the Cecis etc, Vancouver with some of their blueline signings in recent years, Calgary with Brouwer and Neal.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think Brouwer was a carless signing too. I got it ... he fit the bill for a lot of what they were looking for, but a quick look into his underlying stats showed he was getting filled in with Washington and didn't have the counting stats to make the signing worthwhile.

Seems like we see this in Canadian markets ... teams trying to get someone to sign so they overlook the warts.

The Oilers with the Cecis etc, Vancouver with some of their blueline signings in recent years, Calgary with Brouwer and Neal.

Not a driver, more of a passenger?

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Some people don't seem to grasp the situation either

34 games played, 12 home games....2nd in the division

Not even half way done, people act like it's game 78 and the Flames are out of a spot.

Play even with a couple of Anaheim, Edmonton, SJ, LA and you are easily in

You are correct that there are lots of games left and plenty of chances to win

The reaction is due to the performance in the last 10 games or so

For god sake what contender loses to Ottawa? Reminder of last year

[blender]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

You are correct that there are lots of games left and plenty of chances to win

The reaction is due to the performance in the last 10 games or so

For god sake what contender loses to Ottawa? Reminder of last year

Hurricanes just got shelled by the Blue Jackets.
I wonder what their board reads like?

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by blender

Hurricanes just got shelled by the Blue Jackets.
I wonder what their board reads like?

You are right - the success that Carolina and Calgary have had in recent years is equivalent