American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS (Archive)

[Wormius]

No doubt. I think it is in the hospitals' best interests to be guaranteed to be paid for any services they provide, rather than having to hunt down people or send collections after people.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Wormius

No doubt. I think it is in the hospitals' best interests to be guaranteed to be paid for any services they provide, rather than having to hunt down people or send collections after people.

But it's not in the best interests of wealthy executives who would benefit from the proposed tax breaks.

Won't somebody PLEASE think of the executives?!

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by direwolf

Interesting piece by Matt Taibbi about the possible danger that journalists face in how they choose to cover the ongoing Russia story.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...-media-w471074

I thought that the New Yorker article on this subject was spectacular in that regard: it made no reaches, just presented the facts as they are known.

I doubt Trump is Putin's lapdog, but there is real evidence that the Russians meddled in an American election. That's insane to me, and needs to be investigated.

That said, I hope we find out that the peeing tapes are real.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

I thought that the New Yorker article on this subject was spectacular in that regard: it made no reaches, just presented the facts as they are known.

I doubt Trump is Putin's lapdog, but there is real evidence that the Russians meddled in an American election. That's insane to me, and needs to be investigated.

That said, I hope we find out that the peeing tapes are real.

Yeah. I doubt that Putin would specifically recruit a buffoon like Trump who few gave any chance of winning when he entered the race. Instead, I suspect that Russia decided to screw with Hillary as payback for her hawkish stance on Russia and the meddling that the US did in Russian politics while she was Secretary of State. I'm not sure that the Russian government ever thought Trump could win but instead just wanted to make things miserable for her.

The two key unanswered questions are whether the Trump campaign specifically coordinated with Russia on the release of any hacked materials and/or whether the campaign made any promises to Russia in exchange for the hacking. I still don't think there's been evidence of either of those, but that's what it would likely take to actually rise to impeachment level.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Yeah. I doubt that Putin would specifically recruit a buffoon like Trump who few gave any chance of winning when he entered the race. Instead, I suspect that Russia decided to screw with Hillary as payback for her hawkish stance on Russia and the meddling that the US did in Russian politics while she was Secretary of State. I'm not sure that the Russian government ever thought Trump could win but instead just wanted to make things miserable for her.

The two key unanswered questions are whether the Trump campaign specifically coordinated with Russia on the release of any hacked materials and/or whether the campaign made any promises to Russia in exchange for the hacking. I still don't think there's been evidence of either of those, but that's what it would likely take to actually rise to impeachment level.

Doubt all you want. When you see who Trump selected for his cabinet though it becomes a pretty clear of it being very possible when connecting the dots. Not to mention all the meetings that have taken place with Russian diplomats etc. I think Putin took a gamble and was surprised it worked though. Russia plays the long game. Efforts have probably been in place for some time.

Useful idiot is a thing.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by Drak

Useful idiot is a thing.

Don't have to tell us married guys that! Amirite?

[flamingchina]

Well, this settles it. Republicare is definitely the World's Greatest HealthCare Plan

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by flamingchina

Well, this settles it. Republicare is definitely the World's Greatest HealthCare Plan

FAKE NEWS!

Actually, just a misunderstanding. The above was what could have been Republicare, but in the end wasn't. The actual Health care act getting all dat scorn is called "American Health Care Act"
http://www.spin.com/2017/03/worlds-g...ill-obamacare/

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

Sure, the woman-grabbing isn't good, he's an a-hole, he likes his steak well done with ketchup on it, he might like golden showers and younger girls, his people are in cahoots with the Russians, ok fine he's a terrible person and has no morals or ethics other than $$MONEY$$, great...but

"Sure he's morally and ethically unsuitable and lacks the basic competence required of a politician, much less the representative of an entire nation BUT"

There is no but. Full stop. This is enough for the criticism of Donald Trump as POTUS. The unrelenting waves of disdain for person and policy alike all stem from the basic fact that this man is unfit to be anywhere near the position that he currently holds.

[direwolf]

As expected, it looks like the Republicans are gonna try and rush their health care bill through before the CBO has a chance to weigh in. What a bunch of slimy f'n dirtbags. I hope this thing gets crushed.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/08/politi...cbo/index.html

Lawmakers of all stripes are anxiously waiting for the nonpartisan and highly respected Congressional Budget Office to issue its report of the GOP's Obamacare replacement bill, which will detail how much the measure will cost and how many millions of people stand to lose health coverage. But anticipating a report that isn't favorable to Republicans, the White House and GOP lawmakers are actively looking to delegitimize the agency's credibility.

"If you're looking to the CBO for accuracy, you're looking in the wrong place," White House spokesman Sean Spicer told reporters.

The No. 3 House Republican, Majority Whip Steve Scalise, said Wednesday he doesn't want to let "unelected bureaucrats in Washington" slow down the Republican promise to repeal and replace Obamacare. "We're not going to wait," Scalise said.

CBO's report, or "score," is expected Monday, but two House committees are voting on the Republican health care bill Wednesday, much to Democrats' frustration.

"You're fearful that the CBO will provide answers to questions that you don't like. So essentially, you want essentially a sneak attack on this issue before the public hears and we hear from CBO," Rep. Sandy Levin, D-Michigan, said during the Ways and Means Committee markup.

"To consider a bill of this magnitude without a CBO score is not only puzzling and concerning, but also irresponsible," said Rep. Richard Neal, D-Massachusetts.
Rep. Anna Eshoo, a Democrat from California, said after Republicans had spent seven years "harping" on replacing Obamacare, you'd think they would wait "a couple weeks for the CBO" to score their ideas before proceeding to a vote.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Asking incredibly stupid questions is her shtick.

Harsh. Besides isn't it posting gifs of Teenage Mutant Korean Girls?

[FlameOn]

So it seems like Jeff Sessions may be in even more trouble. From his revised testimony to Congress about his meeting with the Russian ambassador, he admitted to two meetings. Sessions likely met with the Russian ambassador a third time that he is not admitting to. So in essence he may be committing perjury while defending himself against his prior accusations of possible perjury. Sounds like a good Yo Dawg meme

Attorney General Jeff Sessions was forced to amend prior testimony to Congress this week, acknowledging that contrary to an earlier statement, he’d encountered the Russian ambassador to the United States twice in the last year.

Sessions appears to have left out a third instance in which they crossed paths.

In April of 2016, Sessions attended a VIP reception at a hotel in Washington, D.C., with President Donald Trump and roughly two dozen guests, including four ambassadors. One of them was Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. The cocktail meet-and-greet took place in a private room at the Mayflower Hotel near the White House. Shortly thereafter, Trump delivered a foreign policy speech in the hotel’s ballroom, where he called for improved U.S.-Russia relations. Kislyak was seated in the front row.

Though the event was small, it is unclear if Sessions and Kislyak spoke directly, and a spokeswoman for the attorney general did not respond immediately to questions about the event from The Huffington Post. Organizers said the event included a receiving line.

Sessions did not mention the Mayflower event when he was asked during his confirmation hearings if he had any contact during the presidential campaign with Russian officials. Nor did he put that event in his amended testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee this week.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0d1078ca37225

[Senator Clay Davis]

House Ways and Means committee passed the healthcare bill at 4:30 AM this morning to give you an idea about how horrible this bill is and for whatever reason how desperate the GOP is to pass it. I still suspect it doesn't not get through the Senate and might still fail in the full House, but if this actually gets to Trump's desk and he somehow signs it, he's signing the death certificate to the GOP's chances in the midterms. Cannot believe they are actually stupid enough to pass this piece of crap.

[Flash Walken]

Politicians who pass near universally unpopular legislation only do so if they are under the belief that unpopular legislation won't impact them politically.

Republicans understand this. They understand the game is rigged, so these types of policy initiatives don't hurt them.

It would not surprise me if the GOP gained seats in the midterm. The game is rigged.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

I think your last sentence here speaks to a core problem with the American electorate: they've had it too good for too long and, accordingly, can't appreciate the privileges they enjoy. They simply take them for granted.

"What do you have to lose?" That's the line that Trump fed inner-city communities, but it's also the way a lot of the people who voted for him felt, i.e., things aren't great or getting better under Obama, so I'm willing to roll the dice on any chance because I've got nothing to lose.

I reckon anyone who comes from a war-torn or third world country would love to slap those people upside the head because they know what it's like to struggle, to not have democracy, to have their environments and their rights eroded, to live under authoritarian rule, to deal every day with propaganda from their governments, restrictions on their ability to vote or travel, and to continually watch the resources of the state being stripped down to benefit the powerful.

Americans - even poorer ones - have a lot to lose, but they're so removed from the experience of say, Somalis, Iranians, Syrians, Yugoslavians, Afghanis, that they think they have nothing to lose, and don't know what it's like to see their country actually go all to hell. So they're willing to take a chance on a clear authoritarian like Trump. An obvious Xenophobe. A likely racist. An unapologetic misogynist. A prolific liar. A tiresome narcissist. A man with fantastical promises - delivered with no explanation for how they'll be achieved - that even his supporters didn't really believe he'd actually follow through on.

Donald Trump is a bad person. It was obvious during the campaign, and it continues to be obvious today. "Change for the sake of change" is not a good reason to equip a bad person with the power to destroy not only the social and political institutions of one's own country, but the ability to destroy the actual, real-life, no-bull$#!+, mother%#$%^&% entire world. It is insanely, irrationally, crazily, suicidally irresponsible.

And even if you don't care about whether he takes your healthcare away, or lies to you daily about things that matter (like whether your democracy's voting system is rigged or whether his predecessor committed crimes) as well as things that don't (like the size of his crowds, hands, and penis), it is not only irresponsible but reprehensible that you would not care that he takes the rights of other people away, plays upon the prejudices and fears of the white majority, and foments hatred against Mexicans, Muslims, and any other group of brown-skinned people that might serve as a convenient fabricated enemy.

Those voters who failed to do this, who failed to consider the obvious impact this man was going to have on their country and the people in it - even if they were other people - and who voted for this guy "for the sake of change" or "for $#!+$ and giggles", need to take a long hard look at themselves and figure out what, if any, principles they actually stand for.

And the crazy thing is, even if those voters can look inward and honestly say "you know what, I'm in it for me, and screw everybody else", Trump is still a bad option because, unless they're rich and white he doesn't have those voters' backs either.

All that to say, I think we dearly miss the greatest generation. They fought and stood for something. It's a shame so many people today seem willing to throw those efforts and achievements - not to mention selfless sacrifice for the sake of others - to the wind, unconcerned about whether the civil society they created blows away for good.

But yeah. Hillary seemed kind of fake. That would have been way worse.

Yugoslavians?

I wonder how people from the Weimar Republic think of Trump, too.

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Cannot believe they are actually stupid enough to pass this piece of crap.

I can.

Also I just saw the Spicer conference clip with the two piles of paper. Thats one of the reasons I can believe how stupid they are.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Politicians who pass near universally unpopular legislation only do so if they are under the belief that unpopular legislation won't impact them politically.

Republicans understand this. They understand the game is rigged, so these types of policy initiatives don't hurt them.

It would not surprise me if the GOP gained seats in the midterm. The game is rigged.

Going up against the AARP is a loser. The core GOP voter (50+ voters) are the biggest losers in this bill. Normally I'd agree with your line of thinking, but the AARP is a different animal to be going up against. They will suffer heavy losses if the AARP says to vote against anyone who approves the bill.

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Politicians who pass near universally unpopular legislation only do so if they are under the belief that unpopular legislation won't impact them politically.

Republicans understand this. They understand the game is rigged, so these types of policy initiatives don't hurt them.

It would not surprise me if the GOP gained seats in the midterm. The game is rigged.

Thats a depressing set of thoughts. I hope youre wrong.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Going up against the AARP is a loser. The core GOP voter (50+ voters) are the biggest losers in this bill. Normally I'd agree with your line of thinking, but the AARP is a different animal to be going up against. They will suffer heavy losses if the AARP says to vote against anyone who approves the bill.

I agree with you in theory, but I don't think it has much practical impact because the crux of it revolves around the electorate being sufficiently informed which is no longer the case in American society. If you can convince someone Obama is going to be holding a death panel for grandma you can convince them you aren't actually taking their health care away or making it worse.

Or you can blame it on those damned liberals, the ready made, easily incited Boogeyman, and get a political boost out of it. Cite how the Dow Jones is doing and you have all the ammunition you need to convince 47% of the people who vote.

Just reading through some commentary and interviews it sounds like most of the strife related to the new healthcare bill is coming from the conservative wing of the GOP, rather than Democratic leadership.

[Senator Clay Davis]

It's not about being sufficiently informed for midterms, it's about who shows up to vote. We already know the left is as riled up as it has ever been, and they will show up. If they can get large swaths of the 50+ population to join them, and the Trump core is depressed (and let's say he signs amnesty...that'll do the trick for sure), that'll probably be enough for a big flip. Midterms are about the right recipe to have turnover. And right now the GOP is setting the table with the right (or in their case wrong) ingredients to make it happen.