[GT] Garbage Bag Day - Player Availability starts at 10:15 am

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No, I'm suggesting it because if you take away his career as a pro coach, that's what he's left with. Which presumably you'd be less happy with.

His mistake was a bad reaction to something that already happened, mainly because his priorities were screwed up. Assuming that was the only thing, and assuming he's rehabilitated, I'd be prepared to see a second chance.

His two options as a human being are coaching young people or coaching NHLers? Not how I see it. He's not in jail, he's not broke without the ability to find a job. He has near total freedom.

Minimizing his actions merely as a "bad reaction"? He had every opportunity to redeem himself before he was exposed and chose not to. He went the other direction by lying about his knowledge.

I hope he has atoned and done things to redeem his role in this.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

His two options as a human being are coaching young people or coaching NHLers? Not how I see it. He's not in jail, he's not broke without the ability to find a job. He has near total freedom.

Minimizing his actions merely as a "bad reaction"? He had every opportunity to redeem himself before he was exposed and chose not to. He went the other direction by lying about his knowledge.

I hope he has atoned and done things to redeem his role in this.

I agree with everything you say, except I think forgiveness, or at least understanding and acceptance, comes with redemption.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CF84

No.

Relax, I was mostly kidding.

However for the failure of the Calgary Flames' season I lay blame directly at the feet of the Swedish and everything they stand for.

We'll never forget this Sweden....and we'll never forgive!!

The Swedes...bah! The worst! Just the worst!

Although on a more serious note, a lot of this season is squarely on Markstrom. If he'd put up even average rookie numbers this team is comfortably in the playoffs.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree with everything you say, except I think forgiveness, or at least understanding and acceptance, comes with redemption.

I agree. But forgiveness doesn't equal no consequences.

He can be forgiven and still not be considered fit to ever coach again in the NHL. Just like I could forgive someone without hiring them to work for me.

Personally, as great a coach as he might be, I want the Flames to find a different qualified person to coach the team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I agree. But forgiveness doesn't equal no consequences.

He can be forgiven and still not be considered fit to ever coach again in the NHL. Just like I could forgive someone without hiring them to work for me.

Personally, as great a coach as he might be, I want the Flames to find a different qualified person to coach the team.

Oh, I don't even think he'd be a good coach here. I'm just saying if someone hired him, I'd reserve judgment until I heard what he had to say.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Seriously this is a silly statement.

That's a fair response. Personally, though, I'm of the mind that the GM chair in this org has very little real autonomy. I'm not all the way on the side of "owner-meddling," but I do believe Sutter was an owner hire, and that all (most, maybe) decisions have to be run all the way up the flagpole.

The only people I can see accepting those restrictions are either first-timers or second-chancers looking for some kind of redemption.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Oh, I don't even think he'd be a good coach here. I'm just saying if someone hired him, I'd reserve judgment until I heard what he had to say.

I’m sure he would be extremely well prepped.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I agree. But forgiveness doesn't equal no consequences.

He can be forgiven and still not be considered fit to ever coach again in the NHL. Just like I could forgive someone without hiring them to work for me.

Personally, as great a coach as he might be, I want the Flames to find a different qualified person to coach the team.

I am guessing you feel pretty strongly about the trust issue.

So you have never been forgiven, or you have never treated someone badly? You have never encountered a situation where you didn't speak up for someone but you should have? What happens if you get a speeding ticket you pay the fine, yet you can still drive again?

So you feel Q's consequences are above repair and he should not coach again?

I think the purpose of rehab is to realize what he did wrong learn from It and get better. What if you got a speeding ticket and could never drive again, what would be the point of the consequence?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I am guessing you feel pretty strongly about the trust issue.

So you have never been forgiven, or you have never treated someone badly? You have never encountered a situation where you didn't speak up for someone but you should have? What happens if you get a speeding ticket you pay the fine, yet you can still drive again?

So you feel Q's consequences are above repair and he should not coach again?

I think the purpose of rehab is to realize what he did wrong learn from It and get better. What if you got a speeding ticket and could never drive again, what would be the point of the consequence?

This isn’t a speeding ticket. He didn’t “treat someone badly”. Jesus Christ. And yet I also expressly said multiple times that he can be forgiven. By me or anyone else.

I am suggesting he should not be an NHL head coach. I would not hire him. To me that is an appropriate consequence for his actions, lack of integrity and subsequent lack of honesty.

Maybe the next coach that hears one of his players is being sexually assaulted by a member of his organization will actually do something about it.

Speeding ticket.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

That's a fair response. Personally, though, I'm of the mind that the GM chair in this org has very little real autonomy. I'm not all the way on the side of "owner-meddling," but I do believe Sutter was an owner hire, and that all (most, maybe) decisions have to be run all the way up the flagpole.

The only people I can see accepting those restrictions are either first-timers or second-chancers looking for some kind of redemption.

And which magical organization do you work at where middle management has full autonomy over all decisions?

I’d wager in 99% of companies on Earth, middle management doesn’t just have blank cheque full autonomy on decision making.

Pretend you own the Flames and pay hockey player millions. You gonna let some other random guy just go do whatever they want without consulting or getting your approval? Lol give me a break man.

There isn’t 1 NHL team that doesn’t have some degree of “owner meddling”. So now it’s a debate about to what degree, which is grey and varied. I bet Calgary is actually better than most organizations in that regard.

Finally and furthermore, why would you ever want just one brain making decisions? You probably want a committee and sober second thoughts, especially with the track record Treliving has on day 1 in free agency. Yikes.

So yeah, this isn’t the problem you probably think it is.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This isn’t a speeding ticket. He didn’t “treat someone badly”. Jesus Christ. And yet I also expressly said multiple times that he can be forgiven. By me or anyone else.

I am suggesting he should not be an NHL head coach. I would not hire him. To me that is an appropriate consequence for his actions, lack of integrity and subsequent lack of honesty.

Maybe the next coach that hears one of his players is being sexually assaulted by a member of his organization will actually do something about it.

Speeding ticket.

As a person who has a disability I can't tell you how many times I have been mistreated. In school, in college and in the workplace. Do I think they should lose thier jobs as a consequence? People do learn if you speak up and take the time to educate them. He made a mistake and he is rehabbing that's a start. I totally understand if you feel it is a trust issue and he can not coach again. My point t about speeding is that people who speed are forgiven and can drive again.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

As a person who has a disability I can't tell you how many times I have been mistreated. In school, in college and in the workplace. Do I think they should lose thier jobs as a consequence. People do learn if you speak up and take the time to educate them. He made a mistake and he is rehabbing that's a start. I totally understand if you feel it is a trust issue and he can not coach again. My point t about speeding is that people who speed are forgiven and can drive again.

Well let’s look at what actually happened here. Just to generically say he made a mistake isn’t very accurate. Some “mistakes” are a little more serious than others.

I don’t know if he is rehabbing, or making amends. I hope he is. I sure hope it is not in pursuit of getting another NHL head coaching job.

Lots of actions have permanent consequences and thankfully so IMO.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well let’s look at what actually happened here. Just to generically say he made a mistake isn’t very accurate. Some “mistakes” are a little more serious than others.

I don’t know if he is rehabbing, or making amends. I hope he is. I sure hope it is not in pursuit of getting another NHL head coaching job.

Lots of actions have permanent consequences and thankfully so IMO.

You never answered my question, have you never treated someone badly or not spoke up when you should have?

[Sandman]

Just saw in the Wranglers' forum that they finished the season with the 9th best record in AHL history (.736%). Perhaps Mitch Love should be our next head coach....

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Just saw in the Wranglers' forum that they finished the season with the 9th best record in AHL history (.736%). Perhaps Mitch Love should be our next head coach....

I would seriously consider this. Every player that came up from his team played well at the NHL level, although usage was pretty light.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I would seriously consider this. Every player that came up from his team played well at the NHL level, although usage was pretty light.

He's come up very fast, and he's only 38. 6 years as an assistant with Everett (WHL), 3 years as Head Coach of the Saskatoon Blades (WHL), and now 2 years in our system.

4 years of his time with the Silvertips, he served under Kevin Constantine- so you know he must be able to handle ANYTHING.

[FlamesAddiction]

I'd be all for it. I am not a Darryl Sutter hater, but I recognize that this market can't have a coach that makes it undesirable for players to be here. In isolation, it usually isn't a big deal, but it's on top of everything else that smaller markets and Canadian teams have to overcome.

[Sandman]

If Pittsburgh decided to move on from Mike Sullivan, I would hope we would jump all over that. Pretty sure it won't happen as long as Crosby and Malkin are there.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

And which magical organization do you work at where middle management has full autonomy over all decisions?

I’d wager in 99% of companies on Earth, middle management doesn’t just have blank cheque full autonomy on decision making.

Pretend you own the Flames and pay hockey player millions. You gonna let some other random guy just go do whatever they want without consulting or getting your approval? Lol give me a break man.

There isn’t 1 NHL team that doesn’t have some degree of “owner meddling”. So now it’s a debate about to what degree, which is grey and varied. I bet Calgary is actually better than most organizations in that regard.

Finally and furthermore, why would you ever want just one brain making decisions? You probably want a committee and sober second thoughts, especially with the track record Treliving has on day 1 in free agency. Yikes.

So yeah, this isn’t the problem you probably think it is.

The General Manager of a hockey club is "middle management?"

[Jetfire]

Originally Posted by Sandman

If Pittsburgh decided to move on from Mike Sullivan, I would hope we would jump all over that. Pretty sure it won't happen as long as Crosby and Malkin are there.

Sullivan played a third of his career here too. If the Pens fired him, I bet we'd have a decent chance of him taking a coaching job here.